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Jason Carr

Moderator Guidelines and Contributor Rules

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6 hours ago, Belgarath said:

The amount of fake images masquerading as real images in appalling. I expect a lot of people don't really care as their main focus is making LaunchBox look pretty, but for a proper gaming database (which is what the LaunchBox one is meant to be) it's not right. Jason added several fanart image types for the database, so if you're going to upload something like that then please mark it properly.

Thanks Thantatos for rejecting those.

Soooo. Admission, I added a couple yesterday as 'reconstructed' instead of 'fanart' (I got myself in a kerfuffle as I essentially used the official console cover/poster and reconstructed it with a PC based header). Afterwards, I realised the mistake (and noted them to change after the inevitable acceptance - which happened 3-1).

It's possible I have this wrong - but I think if there is a fanart cover, but no official one, the game shows up with no cover in the database. If so, this may be influencing people to choose the wrong option for what they perceive to be the benefit of the database - I'll check on one I've just submitted for change now (https://gamesdb.launchbox-app.com/games/images/94958 - Candleman: The Complete Journey). Other than that potential, do you think it would be worth requesting a label change (and grouping in the options list) to make it easier for people who think they're doing right to actually do so? Perhaps something like:

Box - Front (Official)

Box - Front (Reconstructed from Official)

Box - Front (Custom Fanart)

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It's a good suggestion and one that I think makes sense, but only @Jason Carr can decide.

I think it would also be nice if people can at least submit what they think should be the main cover, so that if a game has no real cover we can say show the fanart version, it would also help with games showing budget vresion boxes as the main image even when the original retail cover is there.

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8 hours ago, Belgarath said:

I think it would also be nice if people can at least submit what they think should be the main cover, so that if a game has no real cover we can say show the fanart version, it would also help with games showing budget vresion boxes as the main image even when the original retail cover is there.

+1

A great idea. IIRC, TVDB (and possibly TMDB) use a rating system to achieve a similar outcome - most highly rated is the one displayed (or in the case of Plex, scraped). A little different as it's not subject to official/fanart differentiation (IIRC), but the same context.

 

I noticed a while back, someone suggested a 'locking' system similar to other online DB's so that 'database' mods could lock verified data in place - I know Jason has a lot on and is [very] busy so I'm sure it isn't a high priority; out of curiosity, was this ever considered?

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I've verified that as I thought, no cover displays for the game in DB if it is marked as Fanart - Cover - Front. This could well result in people mislabelling (with good intentions), just to make sure a cover shows in the DB.

Game: https://gamesdb.launchbox-app.com/games/details/96154

Search Results: https://gamesdb.launchbox-app.com/games/results?id=Deathmaster The Dungeons of Death

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I create box art all the time for my own personal projects. As far as moderation goes, what would you like done when a Mock-Up is made for games that won't ever officially have carts/nice looking carts, and boxes? For instance the Satellaview has no official boxes, and the slotted cartridge is quite ugly and boring if viewing in LB/BB. The carts/boxes below were made to resemble an original Super Famicom cartridge, and boxes are based on work already in the database.  Here's an example of my submissions, should I submit/accept similar images using such logic? Should they be submitted under a different category?

 

XZS.thumb.png.9c76a610428ff264ef6ddeeffefa3841.png624598470_RadicalDreamers_NusumenaiHseki-01.thumb.png.8b40db7e74c749c7a9f4faed1500c991.png1193771346_RadicalDreamers.thumb.png.3c72c6575cb274cee50f9d3f42af7fc8.png1729274508_BS-XTheStoryofTheTownWhoseNameWasStolen.thumb.png.814394efd482418d2522a50f6ef85618.pngCredit to mikty for original template design.

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I personally have no issue with mock-ups and recreations, especially if no original art exists. I do the same as you for my personal collection. Some feel different, and only want un-retouched scans of real assets. Hopefully someone higher up than me will comment. :)

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I see a lot of people marking games as Cooperative that are not cooperative. If you have two people playing against a common, computer foe then it is cooperative. Head to head is the opposite of Cooperative, it is competitive.

 

Putting a jigsaw puzzle together is cooperative, as is Trove multiplayer and most D&D party play (unless you count the competition vs. the Dungeon Master). If you are competing for a score or head to head it is NOT cooperative, it is competitive. Doom multiplayer can be cooperative if you only fight the monsters, if you do a death-match game it is not cooperative.

 

Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. :)

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I've been seeing the same thing, I've been also rejecting these changes. The finest example of this was the arcade game "Ace". The only purpose of the game is to kill the other player (no objectives, no other targets). Unfortunately it still passed and this info is inaccurate. 

The way you put it Thanatos, sounded more articulate and helpful, than you actually venting :P

 

 

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So I have 466 FM Towns-games I was thinking about adding when I noticed DB only has its console brother FM Towns Marty.  Marty is backward compatible with FM Towns but is not the same thing. Should I a) add the games as Marty as they do run with it or b) hold until FM Towns is added as a separate platform somewhere around 2025? :)

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On 6/29/2019 at 5:25 AM, viritys said:

So I have 466 FM Towns-games I was thinking about adding when I noticed DB only has its console brother FM Towns Marty.  Marty is backward compatible with FM Towns but is not the same thing. Should I a) add the games as Marty as they do run with it or b) hold until FM Towns is added as a separate platform somewhere around 2025? :)

It would make sense to see if we can work to get the FM Towns into the database first. I know there are limited people that can get that done. Perhaps @Jason Carr can be of assistance in this, though I have no idea how many other people have systems clamoring to be part of the DB that might be ahead of you in line.

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18 hours ago, Thanatos_Prime said:

I found this ESRB conversion table, I was hoping to find out if anyone disagrees with any part of this:Ratings.thumb.png.da1b7ee81061a83c819a94f8b4504da6.png

Just search in ESRB's website and put what's there, if the game is not found, it's "not rated".

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On 7/9/2019 at 5:40 PM, Suhrvivor said:

Just search in ESRB's website and put what's there, if the game is not found, it's "not rated".

I think "Not Rated" is for games that have not ever been given a rating for that platform, pre-1994 games are Not-Rated as are many current independent and web titles. We've always been encouraged to use BBFC, PEGI and CERO ratings in the past and convert them to ESRB as well as converting K+A to E. But I am certainly open to discussion, this as libertarian a process as I've ever seen and that is part of the charm.

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+1 on the alternatives to actual box art, especially for games that don't have any in the real world- I have a lot of indie games released on platforms such as Itch that have literally nothing that would qualify.

I assume there was a discussion somewhere about SCUMMVM being a platform and I missed it? Everything I understand about SCUMMVM seems to put it in a kind of fuzzy space where it's not technically an emulator, but it serves much the same purpose as one, and I always considered it a compatibility layer. Listing it as the platform for a game may represent current playing reality, but as far as I know, no games were actually released to be played on SCUMMVM, so it seems odd in terms of accurate data.

I do understand the relevance of games being played using other software in the modern day, however, and I felt a need to track this on my own collection, so I added a custom field of "Played Via" on my collection, letting me know if something launches through SCUMMVM, DOSBox, Steam, GOG Galaxy, etc., separate from the platform of the game itself. There are quite a few games that can be played on DOSBox or SCUMMVM, for example, so even with the same files, this information is relevant. I would suggest this as a canon field, as in a collection, it is at least as useful as the Region. Not necessarily one that should be included in the Database itself, but very useful for the individual player, and could automatically populate on games that are imported as DOSBox games, Steam Games, or that are being managed by the LaunchBox instance of SCUMMVM. Still trying to work out a way to do this with the games that I have to use a regular VM for, but hey, progress. :-)

Also relevant for play environment would be a field to track whether a game is VR-only, VR-optional, or non-VR. Not a big screaming priority, but it's likely to get more relevant as time goes on. For the moment, I just made another custom field for it, but I figured it was worth mentioning,

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I don't feel qualified enough to comment on the SCUMMVM games, I do remember seeing discussion on it in various places and when it happened, it happened all at once. I'm fine with it being a category of it's own my only peeve with the process is that some people just changed platforms on games instead of making new entries. Ok, it is a SCUMMVM game, but it is also a Commodore game or a DOS game and when I import my DOS games I want them to be identified in that process.

 

Speaking of pet peeves, this one is really starting to tick me off. It is kind of like the submitter is trying to find out the absolute minimum they can put in and have the game approved, with a link for us to do the rest of the work, I suppose. image.thumb.png.302ff9671d0a2989694cb4b80f393094.png

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On 7/14/2019 at 5:42 PM, Firefairy said:

+1 on the alternatives to actual box art, especially for games that don't have any in the real world- I have a lot of indie games released on platforms such as Itch that have literally nothing that would qualify.

I assume there was a discussion somewhere about SCUMMVM being a platform and I missed it? Everything I understand about SCUMMVM seems to put it in a kind of fuzzy space where it's not technically an emulator, but it serves much the same purpose as one, and I always considered it a compatibility layer. Listing it as the platform for a game may represent current playing reality, but as far as I know, no games were actually released to be played on SCUMMVM, so it seems odd in terms of accurate data.

I do understand the relevance of games being played using other software in the modern day, however, and I felt a need to track this on my own collection, so I added a custom field of "Played Via" on my collection, letting me know if something launches through SCUMMVM, DOSBox, Steam, GOG Galaxy, etc., separate from the platform of the game itself. There are quite a few games that can be played on DOSBox or SCUMMVM, for example, so even with the same files, this information is relevant. I would suggest this as a canon field, as in a collection, it is at least as useful as the Region. Not necessarily one that should be included in the Database itself, but very useful for the individual player, and could automatically populate on games that are imported as DOSBox games, Steam Games, or that are being managed by the LaunchBox instance of SCUMMVM. Still trying to work out a way to do this with the games that I have to use a regular VM for, but hey, progress. 🙂

Also relevant for play environment would be a field to track whether a game is VR-only, VR-optional, or non-VR. Not a big screaming priority, but it's likely to get more relevant as time goes on. For the moment, I just made another custom field for it, but I figured it was worth mentioning,

I agree.  With ScummVM being a platform, games have to be listed with their true platform in their name. Maniac Mansion would have a few variants.  Ex. Maniac Mansion (MS-DOS v1), Maniac Mansion (Commodore 64), Maniac Mansion (Amiga) Maniac Mansion (FM Towns)... and so on.

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On 8/31/2016 at 4:28 PM, DOS76 said:

LBGBD Guidelins pg1.JPGLBGBD Guidelins pg2.JPGLBGBD Guidelins pg3.JPG

@Jason Carr are you able modify the first post of this thread with this information? If yes, would you kindly do so? If not, and you are able to do so would you rename this thread to something similar to Suggestions, and make a second thread that is to be pinned with the typed version below in one format or another?

 

I have typed it all out here [I didn't type out links because I don't want to be responsible for taking someone to a potentially malicious site due to a typing error (Copy&Paste is a different story)] :

Our mission for the LaunchBox Games Database is simple, to provide the best possible experience for artwork and metadata for our users to use. The nature of the database is to preserve video game history for hopefully years and years to come. In that spirit, below are the guidelines that we have created for our moderators to go by. If you think a rule is too strict or not strict enough, or want to add a rule not currently in place, please let us know at our forums and | we'll discuss the possibility of a change with a moderation rule 

Moderator and Community Guidelines Thread:

LaunchBox Games Database Issue Tracker:

1.   Do your best to check sources. 
a.   When researching something if two sites have conflicting metadata, try and find a 3rd and see what the 3rd one will match. 
b.   Good and acceptable websites to double check metadata are MobyGames, Giant Bomb, Wikipedia, IGN, Steam, GOG and GameFAQs. 

2.   Game names should reflect the box of the game, with the exception of games that break scraping in LaunchBox. 
a.   For example, Alien 3 breaks scraping with it's superscript 3. 
b.   Characters like : and - and & are acceptable as long as they don't break the above rule. 
c.   Characters like  and + are not acceptable UNLESS on the Boxart or the Developer has spelt the game with them. Still cannot break the scrapability rule 

3.   A game should only have 1 entry per platform.
a. Multiple Disc games don't get entries per disc. Still 1 entry.
b. Special Editions only get a unique entry on the Database if the game is significantly different than the already existing entry. I.e. Fallout 3 and Fallout 3 Game of the Year Edition would be two separate entries. 

4.   Game Descriptions should only contain descriptive text about what the game is. 
a.   Should not contain cheat information. 
b.   Should not spoil the game. 
c.   Do not answer Puzzles in the description 

5.   Consoles will be getting merged with alternate scraping names. 
a.   For example. Famicom and the NES are the same. They will be getting merged soon, but before that is added if the game exists in the NES category don't add it to the Famicom category. 
b.   They're the same console with different regional names. Regional naming alternatives is coming for Consoles and Game Titles. 

6.   Adult games are allowed on the Database, but nudity and partial nudity is not allowed. a. Adult language is allowed as long as it is not obscene. 

a. Adult Language is allowed as long as it is not obscene.

7.   Front and Back Box Art must have the proper regional tag and be added to the proper category. 
a. Reconstructed box art can not be used in any other category then the reconstructed section. 

8. Fan art must be directly related to the game. 
a. Must be created or customized by a user. 
b Fan Art must be at least 1280 x 720 for Background based art. 
c.   Real life photography is not allowed 
d.   Must comply with the other rules, like no nudity. 
e.   No Watermarks of Website logos, Icons or uploader images. 

9.  When possible, get the best looking image available. 
a. No Watermarks 

10.  Game entries require 3 approvals or 3 rejections in order to proceed in either direction In the case of stalemates, we'll try to convene on the forums and discuss the game currently stuck in limbo and proceed from there. 

11.  Metadata should reflect the console it was released on. 
a. If a game has multiple versions on multiple consoles then multiple entries will be required.
b. So if a game exists on PS2, Xbox and GameCube then there should be 3 game entries, 1 for each console.

12.   A game's release date must require at least a release year. If the game has documentation for the release day and month then please provide. 
a.   Older games may not have accurate data on release dates.
b. In case of no year, leave blank until that information can be found.
c.   The release date should be the first date the game was released on. d.   Regional Date categories are going to be implemented, which will then 
require each game to have the proper date for the proper region. 

d. Regional Date categories are going to be implemented, which will then require each game to have the proper date for the proper region.

 

13. Full list of every official ratings board:

14. Game ratings should reflect what is on the box.
a. There is no guess work or making up ratings. If one doesn't exist, then one does not exist.

15. The United States, Canada and Mexico use the ESRB. 
a.   K+A rating was changed to E. In this case make the rating E. 
b.   The database will denote that before 1998 E used to be K+A for historical 
accuracy. 
c.   Official ESRB Ratings: .   UK used the BBFC until 2010 then changed to PEGI. In this case, unlike KM to E, there are too many cases where simple footnotes are sufficient. Use the appropriate rating. 

16. UK used the BBFC until 2010 then changed to PEGI. In tis case, unlike K+A to E, There are too many cases where simple footnotes are sufficient. Use the appropriate rating.

a. BBFC Ratings - only for games released from 2009 and previous and where applicable. (Not every game even got a rating)
b.   Official PE I Ratings (2010 onward)

17.  Japan uses CERO. Japanese games released from 2002 and onward received a CERO rating. 
a.   Official CERO Ratings: 
b.  Japanese PC games (Including Mature games) are rated via EOCS (Ethics Organization of Computer Software). 
c.   Official EOCS Ratings:
 

Edited by Vloshko

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Suggested edits (in italic):

1.

b. add https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/  & https://www.romhacking.net/homebrew/ to the list for rom hack and homebrew source checking.

c. reject if the submission provides zero sources or you are unable to locate corresponding data from the sources listed in 1.b.

4. Change "Game Description" to "Overview" to properly reflect current DB UI/text. 

8.

f. Provide Fanart source.

14.

a. Should be reworded to reflect the difference between the blank option and "Not Rated".

Edited by Vloshko

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I think fanart "proof" may be onerous and unenforceable and rejecting if no sources given only makes sense if you can't find any info yourself. The good thing about the database is that eventually it will all come out in the wash. Mistakes made today, intentional, or through carelessness or inattention will be fixed eventually. I don't think we want to grind moderation to a crawl when often the best thing to do is work to help people attain the vision of the platform that they seek. When in doubt, with the exception of deletes, it might be best to trend towards saying yes in the majority of cases.

I looked at the math at one point. I've moderated over 300,000 items, and I've said "No" around 6000 times and I think I'm relatively tough. Statistically that is a margin of error. I'm here to mostly make sure that someone doesn't go nuts deleting stuff and to try to catch the big stuff. Anything that tries to swing the pendulum too far in the other direction maybe isn't serving the folks that use the product in the best way. I don't want to be a petty dictator or part of a quorum of them. I'm not saying you are either, but rigid rules in a crowdsourced environment often leads to unhappy users and drives away those creative enough to make this all hang together and be beautiful. 

 That said, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that still tries to abide by that set of guidelines and I salute you that you take them seriously.

 

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