Sorry bout the double thread, I thought I was posting in a different area. The only time I have "the no picture problem" with both LB and BB is with the new update. Rolled back it works great. So that is where I'm playing. I apologize for being a dumb ass with this stuff but I am a that's that. I assure y'all I'm not attempting to be a thorn in your side, I'm just trying to learn this stuff and if you're impatient with helping a low common sense noob like myself, I understand. I appreciate the input thus far.