How does LaunchBox/BigBox display roms for merged/non-merged/split MAME rom sets in the UI? Is any option easier to work with when doing things like setting up custom pause menus or bezels?

[NoMoUserNames]

So, I am already well versed on the technical differences between the three types of MAME rom sets. I am however, new to LaunchBox and I am trying to figure out how exactly it handles them. I am hoping to figure this out without having to go download hundreds of extra gigs on all of the romsets only to just delete the others (no unlimited data makes me sad...).

I've read that there used to be limitations with some of them, but for years now launchbox has been able to properly handle all three types without issues. However, I can't seem to find any explanations or examples on whether this results in any differences in the UI when selecting games. 

So, let's say I have a rom that has both a default North America version and a UK clone version. Also, I do plan to create a bunch of custom bezels, pause screens, etc.

1. When I go to that game in Launchbox, will I see both versions displayed separately, or only the primary?
2. Let's say I WANT to play the UK clone for some reason, how do I select that?
3. If I want to pin one specific version like the UK clone as a favorite, and "hide" the NA clone along with some other roms in a kind of "unsorted" folder, is that doable?
4. If I create a custom bezel or pause screen for the UK version, will it show on the NA version?
5. Do these answers change based on whether I have the merged/non-merged/split romset?
6. Do these answers vary at all between the LaunchBox and BigBox UI?
7. I do not plan to update my romsets often. If I do, it'll be a "once every few years" kind of thing. But when I do, is LB/BB easier at handling updates for any of the romsets without losing custom configs/art?
8. Are there any other considerations that I am perhaps not taking into account (besides file size of course)?

Thanks in advance!

[JoeViking245]

29 minutes ago, NoMoUserNames said:

When I go to that game in Launchbox, will I see both versions displayed separately, or only the primary?

Let's say I WANT to play the UK clone for some reason, how do I select that?

This assumes you'll use the Import MAME Arcade Full Set Wizard.  It depends on:  When you get to the How would you like to filter your games? screen, which option you choose 

• Import Clones as Additional Versions (Recommended)
• Skip Clones Entirely
• Import All Clones as Separate Games (Not Recommended)

Choosing the recommended option, the main game shown will be the one based on the Region to Prioritize (another option on the same screen) that you select. The "other" version(s) can be played by right-clicking the game, selecting Play Version and choosing the version you want to play.

 

45 minutes ago, NoMoUserNames said:

If I want to pin one specific version like the UK clone as a favorite, and "hide" the NA clone along with some other roms in a kind of "unsorted" folder, is that doable?

Not sure what you're meaning by folder.  You can only Favorite the main ("Default") game.  If you have the different version as Additional Versions, you can set whichever version you want as the main game.  (Edit the game, go into Additional Apps, select the game and click Make Default).

 

53 minutes ago, NoMoUserNames said:

If I create a custom bezel or pause screen for the UK version, will it show on the NA version?

That's between you and MAME.  LaunchBox sends the ROM name (e.g. 19xx [Europe] or 19xxu [USA]) to MAME and MAME looks for the bezel based on that.

 

59 minutes ago, NoMoUserNames said:

Do these answers change based on whether I have the merged/non-merged/split romset?

No.  When importing using the Full Set Wizard, LaunchBox only looks at your ROMs just enough to know "Yes. You have a full set.".  After that, it doesn't look at, nor care what set type you have.

Take 19XX: The War Against Destiny as a continued example.  When LB imports this game and it clones [as Additional Versions] making 10 total different versions, whether you have a merged set or a non-merged set (my personal preference), it's going to set the respective games application ROM path to the ROM for that game.

So the USA version will point to 19xxu.zip.  If you have a merged set, that file doesn't physically exist.  But that's OK. MAME knows how to find it [inside 19xx.zip].

 

1 hour ago, NoMoUserNames said:

Do these answers vary at all between the LaunchBox and BigBox UI?

No.  Well, other than you can import ROMs from withing Big Box.

 

1 hour ago, NoMoUserNames said:

I do not plan to update my romsets often. If I do, it'll be a "once every few years" kind of thing. But when I do, is LB/BB easier at handling updates for any of the romsets without losing custom configs/art?

You can import the updated set into your existing platform without fear of duplicates.  The caveat is if MAME removes a game entirely.  Which is rare.  This will not alter any settings you made in MAME.

 

1 hour ago, NoMoUserNames said:

Are there any other considerations that I am perhaps not taking into account (besides file size of course)?

As stated, I prefer using (the larger in size) non-merged sets.  It provides better flexibility if you want to completely remove (and delete) games.  e.g Remove the parent and keep the clone.  Also, with each ROM being completely self-contained, you don't have to worry about BIOS and Device files as they're in with the ROM.

Import CHD games on an as-desired basis.  Making sure MAME can run it 1st.  e.g. As of version 0.266 (yeah, old notes. lol), there were 640 CHD ROMs (including clones).  351 were parent ROMs.  57 [of the 351] were considered working.

Once you imported your games and got the looking pretty (in LaunchBox/Big Box and during gameplay with your desired bezels and shaders), don't forget to actually PLAY them too.

Ahh... bezels..., LaunchBox can import those for from the Bezel Project if you so desire.  (an option during import)  You mentioned you have custom bezels, so just leave that option un-selected.

[NoMoUserNames]

Thank you! This is very helpful. I didn't realize the "magic" was happening (in this context) during the import wizard.

The one pending question then is about "Pause Themes". I mistakenly called them "pause screens" in my prior post, but I was thinking about leveraging the LB pause theme functionality to display game specific control schemes. 

I assume if I "Skip Clones Entirely", there is just one version so no issue. If I "Import All Clones as Separate Games" then I'd need to set the art for each one individually because LB will treat them as entirely separate games. But what about "Import Clones as Additional Versions"? If I set a pause theme for one version, will it display for other versions too?

[JoeViking245]

1 hour ago, NoMoUserNames said:

pause theme functionality to display game specific control schemes

Sticking with Arcade, when you play a game and then pause it (which to me feels a bit Sacrilege ), you'll see that it already does this.  

Here (the Default Pause Theme) you have the game-specific Clear Logo [SelectedGame.ClearLogoImagePath], "Box-Front" [SelectedGame.Box3DOrNormalImagePath] (I set 'Arcade Cabinets' to the top of the priority list) and Arcade - Controls Information [SelectedGame.ArcadeControlsInformationImagePath} (showing my custom control panel for my cab).

And of course, you can add, move, resize the images to your heart's desire.

 

1 hour ago, NoMoUserNames said:

what about "Import Clones as Additional Versions"? If I set a pause theme for one version, will it display for other versions too?

Again, it's game specific.  And it looks for the "SelectedGame".  That is, you don't need a specific [pause] theme for a specific game.  If fact, you can't because they're created per platform.  Or use "default" as a fallback (as seen in \LaunchBox\PauseThemes\Default\).

[NoMoUserNames]

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Again, it's game specific.  And it looks for the "SelectedGame". 

So I guess my question is whether LB/BB treats different "versions" as different "games". Does the "SelectedGame" variable change depending on whether I've launched a different "version" of a game (assuming I selected "import clones as additional versions)?

 

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That is, you don't need a specific [pause] theme for a specific game.  If fact, you can't because they're created per platform.  Or use "default" as a fallback (as seen in \LaunchBox\PauseThemes\Default\).

Perhaps I've misunderstood pause themes a bit. I assumed that the pause theme just said "look here for pause screen image for currently loaded game", but it sounds like that is an incorrect assumption. If you don't mind, let me break it down a bit to make sure I am clear.

So, looking at the sample screenshot you've posted, am I correct in my NEW understanding that the pause theme just defines what elements to display on-screen when paused. i.e. "gameLogo" goes here, "arcadeCabinetImage" goes here, etc. Are the actual images themselves (i.e. the StreetFighter logo and cabinet picture) still game specific? 

The control panel image, I assume, is still somewhat dynamic. Or does it just display the same image with "light kick, medium kick, heavy kick, etc." for every single game on the "arcade" platform? A static image makes sense for consoles where the input hardware is static, but not for arcades where the hardware and intent of the hardware varies by game.

If it is dynamic, does the pause theme just define a call to "display control panel here", then dynamically populate the image with button assignment and game-specific actions for that game, (likely from MAME's cfg files)? 

 

Also, thanks again. I know I am getting very specific, and you've been incredibly helpful so far. I really appreciate the assistance. 

Edited Tuesday at 03:17 PM by NoMoUserNames

[JoeViking245]

7 minutes ago, NoMoUserNames said:

So I guess my question is whether LB/BB treats different "versions" as different "games". Does the "SelectedGame" variable change depending on whether I've launched a different "version" of a game (assuming I selected "import clones as additional versions)?

Short version:  Yes.

Long version:

[generally] LaunchBox does not keep 'record' (say, via an xml file or otherwise) of images associated with a game.  On-the-fly, it looks in the respective platforms folder under /Images/.  It looks for an image file matches the games Title or the games ROM filename (minus extension). (not sure of the order-of-precedence)

Note RE: game Title and image file names.  If the game Title has invalid filename characters, they will get replaced with an underscore when saving/naming the image file.

e.g.  Title = 19XX: The War Against Destiny  Image filename = 19XX_ The War Against Destiny.png

Additionally, LaunchBox also replaces single-quotes with an underscore.

 

20 minutes ago, NoMoUserNames said:

the pause theme just defines what elements to display on-screen when paused

That is correct.

 

20 minutes ago, NoMoUserNames said:

Are the actual images themselves (i.e. the StreetFighter logo and cabinet picture) still game specific? 

Also correct.  Following the guidelines of "SelectedGame".

 

22 minutes ago, NoMoUserNames said:

The control panel image, I assume, is still somewhat dynamic.

You're on a roll.   Coded in the Default Pause Theme (specific for "Arcade") for this image is SelectedGame.ArcadeControlsInformationImagePath

 

39 minutes ago, NoMoUserNames said:

A static image makes sense for consoles where the input hardware is static, but not for arcades where the hardware and intent of the hardware varies by game.

When you look in the /LaunchBox/PauseThemes/Default/ folder, you'll see Default.xml and Arcade.xml.  The latter being the (specific for "Arcade") mentioned above.

Default.xml is the Pause screen shown for platforms that don't have their own xml file.

Default.xml shows the images:

• SelectedGame.ClearLogoImagePath
• SelectedGame.FrontImagePath
• SelectedGame.CartFrontImagePath

So no control panel images.

 

44 minutes ago, NoMoUserNames said:

If it is dynamic, does the pause theme just define a call to "display control panel here", then dynamically populate the image with button assignment and game-specific actions for that game, (likely from MAME's cfg files)? 

Sort of.  No.

For Arcade[.xml], it dynamically shows the static control panel image for that SelectedGame (if one exists).  You're not that lucky to have available dynamic images like what CPWizard does.   In my image above, that panel was created using CPWizard, customized to match my cab (green and buttons etc. layout).  I then had CPW save an image file for each game. (Yeah, a ton of images. lol)

When you download images, (for Arcade) you can get (if available)

Arcade - Controls Information (a generic layout)

And/or Arade - Control Panel

 

1 hour ago, NoMoUserNames said:

Also, thanks again. I know I am getting very specific, and you've been incredibly helpful so far. I really appreciate the assistance. 

You're welcome.  Now that you have a good basis, I think it's time to stop planning, start setting things up and get to playin'. 

[NoMoUserNames]

14 minutes ago, JoeViking245 said:

 In my image above, that panel was created using CPWizard, customized to match my cab (green and buttons etc. layout).  I then had CPW save an image file for each game. (Yeah, a ton of images. lol)

 

Yeah, that was basically what I planned on doing. Outputting images for controls one game at a time, then using pause themes to display them. I definitely won't get through all of the games, but my plan is to create images with game specific control details for specific "popular" games, then also have a generic one to use that just displays the keyboard key tied to each button via the ipac. That way, people can semi-easily pull up the pause menu and the MAME controls menu and figure out what does what by seeing that "the H" key is assigned to "player 2 jump" and that a specific button is mapped to "H" on my control panel.

It'll just be important to not go and change those around after creating the images...

 

Quote

I think it's time to stop planning, start setting things up and get to playin'.

Agreed. Just waiting on the downloads. The plan is to get things generally working on my main PC using free versions until I'm happy with the games and basic software setup. The cabinet build is going to take months (trying to learn how to use sketchup this time around as part of the process), so I've got time. Once I get the hardware that will go in the cabinet ill start getting the paid stuff like BigBox and doing the hardware specific config. 

Edited Tuesday at 04:30 PM by NoMoUserNames

[JoeViking245]

1 hour ago, NoMoUserNames said:

It'll just be important to not go and change those around after creating the images...

lol  Since you'll be using an I-Pac, you shouldn't need to change a thing.  For ease, may want to keep it in keyboard input mode (vs. Xinput mode).  My antique I-Pac doesn't (can't) even support Xinput mode. So I was safe.   Then anything you want/need Xinput for (most anything outside of MAME), attach a controller.

 

1 hour ago, NoMoUserNames said:

The plan is to get things generally working on my main PC using free version

Sounds good.  Other than you won't be able to setup/use the Pause Screen(s) with the free version of LaunchBox.