What do you suggest to store Launchbox in external hd?

[xevious1974]

Hi,

I have changed my pc and I am not very satisfied with the new cooling system. So I was thinking to put my 2 hd (14 and 18 TB) on an external hub/dock station or other linked to my pc with USB (3.2 gen2 or gen 1)

But I dont know which hardware to use. Any of you use LB/BB on external hardware? Can I use the first that I like?

Can you help me please?

 

[TJ_on_Launchbox]

I have used Seagate external Hardware and also Western Digital.
Both run fine.

If you want to copy your entire Build then use "Teracopy".
You can use the free Version. It did the Job perfect for me.

If you copy like 8 TB at once then you have a Pause Button. The next Day you just click on the Button and it continues to copy where it stopped the Day before.

[xevious1974]

21 hours ago, TJ_on_Launchbox said:

I have used Seagate external Hardware and also Western Digital.
Both run fine.

If you want to copy your entire Build then use "Teracopy".
You can use the free Version. It did the Job perfect for me.

If you copy like 8 TB at once then you have a Pause Button. The next Day you just click on the Button and it continues to copy where it stopped the Day before.

Thank you for your reply!
Your external device was for 1 HD or for more HD in the same device?

Because I have 2 differents HD that I'd like to move outside the case in a single external device (with a good cooling system) and I'd like that windows will see them separately...I have inserted too many paths to change all.

But I admit that I dont know what I am talking about, I dont know which system/device/hardware can be used.

[TJ_on_Launchbox]

My external Device was 1 HD and i moved it to another bigger 1 HD.
I rather don´t want to answer subjects considering implementing 2 HDs into 1 HD because i guess you could mess up if you are not experienced and so you could overwrite things.
 

[skizzosjt]

On 10/17/2022 at 9:33 AM, xevious1974 said:

Hi,

I have changed my pc and I am not very satisfied with the new cooling system. So I was thinking to put my 2 hd (14 and 18 TB) on an external hub/dock station or other linked to my pc with USB (3.2 gen2 or gen 1)

But I dont know which hardware to use. Any of you use LB/BB on external hardware? Can I use the first that I like?

Can you help me please?

 

let's not gloss over the comment you're not getting the proper cooling your system needs. I highly recommend to address that! poor cooling will not go away or should it give you any piece of mind by removing your disks out of your case. The heat is going to be coming from likely CPU, GPU or possibly PSU, but frankly never heard of anyone improving temps by removing a HDD or two out of their case. They don't produce enough heat to be the culprit. If I were you, I would explain this situation further so you can get some help on how to improve it. It's not always a just toss money at it and get more or better fans. Having them setup in a proper configuration is just as important. Certain PC cases are much better for allowing good airflow compared to others. Improper cooler mounting. Ambient temps...etc are some of the factors that could be lending to your cooling challenges

 

about the dock. do you already run LB/BB on these HDDs? if so moving them to an external dock should not impact anything. A HDD cannot saturate USB 3.X and it cannot saturate SATA III which I'm sure is what you had it connected through when they are inside the case. In other words the bottleneck is the HDD itself, the connection protocol used doesn't come into play limiting performance in this scenario. it means you could get any dock that has the features you want and call it a day if that is the case. for what you provided so far I'd be looking for a dock that has two bays so you can have both HDD's installed simultaneously. Something like this should cost about $35 - $55 depending on the brand and specific model......don't fall for the bait about the marketing BS that says a specific model is rated for something like "up to 12TB drives".....there literally is no such thing as a limit like that....as if your dock and PC cannot communicate with the disk if it's beyond a certain size. (this isn't the days of FAT32 file system) If it's a dock with some extra features, maybe those extra bells and whistles features do not work on drives beyond their stated max, but for reading or writing data to disks in the dock, such as a LB build, there is no problem there.

 

I use this guy specifically for not having any HDD's in my PC case to eliminate the noise as well as make room for other SSD's to use the bays they were once in. Now I can turn them on only when needed rather than they are on the whole time the PC is powered up. Not necessarily saying "get this model" but it sounds like it would cover your use case. To be clear though this works well for my use case, which is just data use, not booting from them, so similar enough to your use case (storing LB data). I would use this as a starting point, and you should shop around for a unit that's available in your region, I know prices and availability of items can change country to country. You certainly do not need USB 3.2 gen 1 or 2 if all you're going to use these for is HDDs. if you ever plan to put an SSD in the dock, USB 3.0 is still technically fast enough for any 2.5" SATA III SSD. Not until you get into SSDs that are NVMe would they be able to saturate USB 3.0 speeds. I do not run LB/BB from this. Personally I wouldn't run my OS or software from an HDD anymore, I appreciate the snappiness of a SSD. So I use these for mainly storing games I cannot fit on my SSDs in the PC case as well as backing up stuff. Note how silly this marketing BS is here....title shows "up to two 12TB disks"....read the description "up to two 18TB disks".....it's just the manufacturers way of saying they tested it with disks up to this size but USB doesn't care how big the disk is. Those were likely the biggest disks out on the market at the time when this model was released a few years ago.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PX2HHD6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

2 hours ago, TJ_on_Launchbox said:

My external Device was 1 HD and i moved it to another bigger 1 HD.
I rather don´t want to answer subjects considering implementing 2 HDs into 1 HD because i guess you could mess up if you are not experienced and so you could overwrite things.
 

I think they are saying they want to put two HDDs into a single dock, rather than combine the contents of two HDDs to a single HDD. @xevious1974 if I misunderstood, sorry, just ignore my post about the dock

[xevious1974]

Thank you for yours replies!

 

1 hour ago, skizzosjt said:

let's not gloss over the comment you're not getting the proper cooling your system needs. I highly recommend to address that! poor cooling will not go away or should it give you any piece of mind by removing your disks out of your case. The heat is going to be coming from likely CPU, GPU or possibly PSU, but frankly never heard of anyone improving temps by removing a HDD or two out of their case. They don't produce enough heat to be the culprit. If I were you, I would explain this situation further so you can get some help on how to improve it. It's not always a just toss money at it and get more or better fans. Having them setup in a proper configuration is just as important. Certain PC cases are much better for allowing good airflow compared to others. Improper cooler mounting. Ambient temps...etc are some of the factors that could be lending to your cooling challenges

 

I have changed my pc. Usually I take classic case with a good airflow and I am used having HD next to frontal fans. I have inserted in the order a case but the sellers reported me that the case was not able to support 4 HD, so I have changed it with a bit of hurry, without looking it very well. I have choosen a Lian Li 011 mini air, I have read review and looking at it seemed good.
These new case separate PSU and HD in a not visible area, behind the mobo. I have stocked my two HD and their temperatures were of 40° and 50°. I dont like that, so I have put and HD on the front, fixing it on the bottom of the case, it is not the right place but now the temperature is 31°. Also my CPU were a bit hot, but maybe I had some optimized option in bios that I have removed and now seems to be acceptable. anyway I have the other HD stocked in the invisible area and his temperature is about 38-40°, there are no fans there, so I was thinking to move the 2 hd in another place. I admit that having it on the bottom does not look so good...

 

 

1 hour ago, skizzosjt said:

I think they are saying they want to put two HDDs into a single dock, rather than combine the contents of two HDDs to a single HDD. @xevious1974 if I misunderstood, sorry, just ignore my post about the dock

Yes, you are right. I am not so good to handle different situations, so I prefer to use them separately. I'd like to see them for what they are.

 

1 hour ago, skizzosjt said:

about the dock. do you already run LB/BB on these HDDs? if so moving them to an external dock should not impact anything. A HDD cannot saturate USB 3.X and it cannot saturate SATA III which I'm sure is what you had it connected through when they are inside the case. In other words the bottleneck is the HDD itself, the connection protocol used doesn't come into play limiting performance in this scenario. it means you could get any dock that has the features you want and call it a day if that is the case. for what you provided so far I'd be looking for a dock that has two bays so you can have both HDD's installed simultaneously. Something like this should cost about $35 - $55 depending on the brand and specific model......don't fall for the bait about the marketing BS that says a specific model is rated for something like "up to 12TB drives".....there literally is no such thing as a limit like that....as if your dock and PC cannot communicate with the disk if it's beyond a certain size. (this isn't the days of FAT32 file system) If it's a dock with some extra features, maybe those extra bells and whistles features do not work on drives beyond their stated max, but for reading or writing data to disks in the dock, such as a LB build, there is no problem there.

 

I use this guy specifically for not having any HDD's in my PC case to eliminate the noise as well as make room for other SSD's to use the bays they were once in. Now I can turn them on only when needed rather than they are on the whole time the PC is powered up. Not necessarily saying "get this model" but it sounds like it would cover your use case. To be clear though this works well for my use case, which is just data use, not booting from them, so similar enough to your use case (storing LB data). I would use this as a starting point, and you should shop around for a unit that's available in your region, I know prices and availability of items can change country to country. You certainly do not need USB 3.2 gen 1 or 2 if all you're going to use these for is HDDs. if you ever plan to put an SSD in the dock, USB 3.0 is still technically fast enough for any 2.5" SATA III SSD. Not until you get into SSDs that are NVMe would they be able to saturate USB 3.0 speeds. I do not run LB/BB from this. Personally I wouldn't run my OS or software from an HDD anymore, I appreciate the snappiness of a SSD. So I use these for mainly storing games I cannot fit on my SSDs in the PC case as well as backing up stuff. Note how silly this marketing BS is here....title shows "up to two 12TB disks"....read the description "up to two 18TB disks".....it's just the manufacturers way of saying they tested it with disks up to this size but USB doesn't care how big the disk is. Those were likely the biggest disks out on the market at the time when this model was released a few years ago.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PX2HHD6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

 

Thank you for your suggestion! I have seen that product and it is the easiest way to handle what I need. What do you think about dirt? What do you think about little hurt that can take? And what do you think about temperature?

Yeah, maybe I a bit worried about my hd, but you know...I am working hard on my LB config from 3-4 years, and I cannot loose all for a mistakes. I have a little backup on an 8TB...and I have to update it. In fact I'd like having more spaces, like 3-4 slot, to add also my backup. Can work that? What do you think?

Thank you again for your time!

 

 

[skizzosjt]

@xevious1974 ahh it's a mini version! I got a regular version of the O11D. This case should be fine, it's not like you got some dud with terrible air flow.  I imagine you had high ambient temps in the case which transfer into disks being a little warmer. But 40C is def OK, 50C is less OK, it's def on the higher end, depends on the specific disk if that is reaching the danger zone since they are not all created equal on what they can tolerate. Putting one or both of them on the bottom of the case is part of these cases features, they are designed mounting points for disks. They would by theory get excellent air flow there assuming you got enough air flow coming in from the front panel and exhausting out the rear or out the top of the case. Looks like it comes with two 140s in the front and a 120 in the rear. If that isn't getting the job done I would instead move the disks to the back disk bays (the hidden ones as you called it) and add two fans at the side panel of the case for intake. Here's a pic for reference because I wasn't sure if the mini model was capable of mounting fans here. This will help keep all the disks in the back compartment cool with those fans bringing in cool air while also helping the PSU stay cooler. Otherwise assuming the only thing back there with a fan is the PSU and that is likely only exhausting hot air away, and would be dumping hot air onto where your HDDs were. That would be equally bad I bet. This sounds like what you setup initially, and could explain why you had a disk running up to 50C, it would have very little air flow with only the PSU fan dumping more hot air over the disk that is practically just above it.

*if you do this, do not mount your fans on the side panel like this clown did lol.  they orientated them as exhaust! You do not want hot air going back there, you would want to bring cool air in so they need to be intake! I just grabbed the first pic I found that showed a mini O11 with fans mounted on the side, just realized now they are orientated backwards from what I would recommend.

 

Even the mid tower version which I have only has two full sized disk bays and then a couple more mounting points which are better suited for 2.5" disks not 3.5" which I assume your HDDs are. I seriously think only 4 HDD's can fit in my mid tower version even, two in the back bays and one mounted on the support bracket which is really bad spot because it will get in the way of any cable routing.  Then a 4th on the bottom of the front compartment. yet another reason why I've abandoned having HDDs in my case lol. Just saying this because unless you get a full tower you are not going to find many cases with many disk bays, especially not a mini tower that's smaller than mid, but at least it's not a true SFF case.

So cosmetically it may not look pretty on the bottom as you described, but it's a good spot for functional reasons. If you want to make it look prettier I would invest in a couple more fans (or maybe you have a couple 120's laying around from an old case that fit this job?) and put them in the side panel as intake. Then you should be able to keep any disks stored in the disk bays in a safe temp range with that setup.

On the CPU, sounds like you might have turned on some "auto overclocking" feature? If so those are notorious for being terribly optimized. They will in fact give you more performance, but at a cost of way more temp. Those things normally pound the voltage in and as a result will make the CPU run pretty darn hot. The MB manufacturer doesn't want ppl to use these features and have their system be all unstable because the voltage is a hair too low, so they crank it to make sure the system is stable.  So now knowing a bit more of this story as a whole, I could see the high temps being caused by an auto overclock or maximum boost type feature which means there is a bunch more of hot air getting dumped into the case from the CPU cooler and as a result the HDDs ran hotter due to the higher ambient temp in the case. Overall, I think you're making good adjustments for the problem but might need those extra fans if you aren't fully satisfied with temps after you have had a chance to really evaluate everything.

 

5 hours ago, xevious1974 said:

What do you think about dirt? What do you think about little hurt that can take? And what do you think about temperature?

might be a language translation error here? I'm not sure where you were going with the dirt or hurt comment. If the temp question is about how cool my disks stay when in the dock since they are not in a case where they get good air flow they will run a little hotter than if they were in a case. As in they will not run at a cool 31C sitting in a dock, unless you get a dock with built in fans, they do exist but will cost more. I have my dock basically next to my feet when I'm at my desk and I can hear some light "whirring" from them and they are warm to the touch, but not hot. I use HWInfo64 for monitoring temps and temps will depend on the ambient temp of the room/building you are in. My HDDs in the dock normally are in the 30s and 40s when in actual use. low 20's when I boot up, and when idling mid-high 20s and then climb to the 30's say after 30mins and eventually 40s when in an extended use time frame.  Depends on the disk model, some run cooler than others.

 

6 hours ago, xevious1974 said:

In fact I'd like having more spaces, like 3-4 slot, to add also my backup. Can work that? What do you think?

And to close this post out I'd say yes you can get any size dock that suites your needs. Get whatever one you want that has the features you're after. You do not have to populate all the bays, you can leave them empty if you got a bigger dock like a 4 bay model. If you only have 2 disks to go into it for now that is fine. It gives you room to upgrade should you want to have more disks in use at the same time down the road.

[xevious1974]

Ciao @skizzosjt

Just returned on my pc now!

I post you some photos of my case, so I can explain better:

This is my case. You can see my first HD on the bottom. Here I have a good temperature. I have only one fan behind (120) and 2 front (140). I think I'll add 1 on the panel you showed me, it is a good idea. And then I'll mount some on the top. Id like to mount a liquid cooler on my cpu...but I dont want to remove mobo..I cant reach it from the behind...

How you can see, there is a good place for a 120. But I'll have to remove a little panel from behind.

That is the back. You can see a secondary HD put in vertical and the little panel that I can remove to insert the fan. On the right psu and over the other HD. I have choosen to put on the external slot to gain 2 cm from the mobo.

Now you can see the hole removing the little panel. I dont understand anyway where to put the fan. From the back or from the front? I was thinking to make the fan able to push air from Front to behind, it is right? That is what you call "intake"? I am not sure that it'll push a lot of air because the HD is a bit far from here and it is not directly hit, but maybe it can help to make some air moves. Here we say that "something is better than nothing". I was also thinking to put a little fan (100) in the missing hd slot, maybe I can obtain a good direct airflow...I am not so sure for the vibration, but I can make a low rotation on it...

 

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by xevious1974

[xevious1974]

On 10/21/2022 at 4:27 AM, skizzosjt said:

might be a language translation error here? I'm not sure where you were going with the dirt or hurt comment. If the temp question is about how cool my disks stay when in the dock since they are not in a case where they get good air flow they will run a little hotter than if they were in a case. As in they will not run at a cool 31C sitting in a dock, unless you get a dock with built in fans, they do exist but will cost more. I have my dock basically next to my feet when I'm at my desk and I can hear some light "whirring" from them and they are warm to the touch, but not hot. I use HWInfo64 for monitoring temps and temps will depend on the ambient temp of the room/building you are in. My HDDs in the dock normally are in the 30s and 40s when in actual use. low 20's when I boot up, and when idling mid-high 20s and then climb to the 30's say after 30mins and eventually 40s when in an extended use time frame.  Depends on the disk model, some run cooler than others.

 

And to close this post out I'd say yes you can get any size dock that suites your needs. Get whatever one you want that has the features you're after. You do not have to populate all the bays, you can leave them empty if you got a bigger dock like a 4 bay model. If you only have 2 disks to go into it for now that is fine. It gives you room to upgrade should you want to have more disks in use at the same time down the road.

I have saved my last comment...a little afraid to loose what I have written

For the docking station, I think I'll look for something that can operate with fans and protect from dust. I have also a little girl here that sometimes does not look where she goes...and I cant loose my data!! But I have to find something good.

Now I have bought some argb items and I am having fun...I have put led all over the desk ahahahhaah

Edited October 24, 2022 by xevious1974

[xevious1974]

On 10/21/2022 at 4:27 AM, skizzosjt said:

On the CPU, sounds like you might have turned on some "auto overclocking" feature? If so those are notorious for being terribly optimized. They will in fact give you more performance, but at a cost of way more temp. Those things normally pound the voltage in and as a result will make the CPU run pretty darn hot. The MB manufacturer doesn't want ppl to use these features and have their system be all unstable because the voltage is a hair too low, so they crank it to make sure the system is stable.  So now knowing a bit more of this story as a whole, I could see the high temps being caused by an auto overclock or maximum boost type feature which means there is a bunch more of hot air getting dumped into the case from the CPU cooler and as a result the HDDs ran hotter due to the higher ambient temp in the case. Overall, I think you're making good adjustments for the problem but might need those extra fans if you aren't fully satisfied with temps after you have had a chance to really evaluate everything.

 

 

I had the i5 8400 with a mobo asus TUF, I had never problems with cpu temperatures.

So I have bought a similar one. i5 11400f with another asus tuf mobo (b560m plus wifi). When the cpu touched 100° I was a little surprised. luckly I have thought to enter the bios and check for something different from "default". From that time I have never touched again such temperatures and usually it goes 70-80 when I am playing. I dont know if it is good, but for sure it is better.

[skizzosjt]

 

21 hours ago, xevious1974 said:

This is my case. You can see my first HD on the bottom. Here I have a good temperature. I have only one fan behind (120) and 2 front (140). I think I'll add 1 on the panel you showed me, it is a good idea. And then I'll mount some on the top. Id like to mount a liquid cooler on my cpu...but I dont want to remove mobo..I cant reach it from the behind...

You wouldn't want to try to install an AIO with the MB installed in the case. Or, at least not assuming you need to also install a support bracket on the rear of the MB for said AIO, because that must be done with it out of the case. Here I say avoid an AIO unless you want one for aesthetic reasons. (it looks cool sort of thing). 11400F can be cooled by Intel's basic included cooler so you don't necessarily need a better one unless you're trying to run with higher power limits....which is likely what was changed in UEFI (BIOS) since this is the only thing I know that exists that could make you hit 100C+ temps on such a run of the mill chip. (that is besides doing other mistakes that wouldn't go away from changing an option in UEFI)

 

21 hours ago, xevious1974 said:

I dont understand anyway where to put the fan. From the back or from the front? I was thinking to make the fan able to push air from Front to behind, it is right? That is what you call "intake"?

A standard fan is 25mm thick and can fit on either the back or the front of that side panel mount point. See those slots to either side of this area? (I marked one side of these slots in yellow) Those are the mounting points for fans and rads and any other standardized gear that follows the 120mm footprint. As far as intake or exhaust goes, that is decided by the orientation, rather than which side of a mounting point it is placed on.  These pics below will hopefully explain how to tell which orientation creates exhaust or intake. Please note you mentioned "push air from front to behind", and if I understand that correct, it's what I am recommending against, as that acts as exhaust and you do not want hot air coming off the GPU and GPU etc going into the back compartment. I recommend making it intake. (Literally orientate your fans 180 degrees from my previous posts pic as another photo to reference). Intake in this context means a fan on the side panel will suck in cool air from outside the case and push it inside your case. This will create cool air flow into the back compartment which will help keeps the disks mounted back there cooler along with also helping cool the PSU. This means if your fan(s) are mounted to the side panel area and you are looking into your case, you will be looking at the rear of the fan, where the support braces and hub are

 

Consider this pic. Notice you can see the "front" side of the fan facing the inside of the case? This side of the fan is where air will be sucked into, aka, the intake side. Meaning air from inside the case gets sucked into this fan, and then exhausts the hot air outside of the case. Considering all this as a whole, this fan is acting as an exhaust fan, which is perfectly appropriate.

 

Notice how on these fans you do not see the "front" of the fan. Instead you see the "rear" of the fan from inside the case. Take notice of the yellow lines I drew over the support brace on the backside of the fan. This is an easy way to identify which side is the front or rear. The "hub" is on the rear. If you took those stickers off this is where you would place a drop of something like 3 in 1 oil to lubricate it. The rear side is the side with these braces. If you were to pick up a fan and look at the side with these braces, if that fan was turned on it would be blowing air into your face. If you then turned it around so the braces are facing away from you, it would be blowing air away from your face. So based on the orientation the fan is installed is what determines if it is acting like intake or exhaust. The front fans are therefore acting as intake, also perfectly appropriate

Right now you have front to rear case air flow and more intake than exhaust which is good in my opinion. it creates more positive air pressure which means if there is more air coming in, than going out, it makes it much harder for dust to settle into your system.

 

 

21 hours ago, xevious1974 said:

I had the i5 8400 with a mobo asus TUF, I had never problems with cpu temperatures.

So I have bought a similar one. i5 11400f with another asus tuf mobo (b560m plus wifi). When the cpu touched 100° I was a little surprised. luckly I have thought to enter the bios and check for something different from "default". From that time I have never touched again such temperatures and usually it goes 70-80 when I am playing. I dont know if it is good, but for sure it is better.

You have a problem if you're even close to 100C. Even though 80C is acceptable, 70C sounds more in line where you should be according to reviews. This is why I think the power limit was cranked to reach those high temps.

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i5-11400f/21.html

[xevious1974]

1 hour ago, skizzosjt said:

 

You wouldn't want to try to install an AIO with the MB installed in the case. Or, at least not assuming you need to also install a support bracket on the rear of the MB for said AIO, because that must be done with it out of the case. Here I say avoid an AIO unless you want one for aesthetic reasons. (it looks cool sort of thing). 11400F can be cooled by Intel's basic included cooler so you don't necessarily need a better one unless you're trying to run with higher power limits....which is likely what was changed in UEFI (BIOS) since this is the only thing I know that exists that could make you hit 100C+ temps on such a run of the mill chip. (that is besides doing other mistakes that wouldn't go away from changing an option in UEFI)

 

A standard fan is 25mm thick and can fit on either the back or the front of that side panel mount point. See those slots to either side of this area? (I marked one side of these slots in yellow) Those are the mounting points for fans and rads and any other standardized gear that follows the 120mm footprint. As far as intake or exhaust goes, that is decided by the orientation, rather than which side of a mounting point it is placed on.  These pics below will hopefully explain how to tell which orientation creates exhaust or intake. Please note you mentioned "push air from front to behind", and if I understand that correct, it's what I am recommending against, as that acts as exhaust and you do not want hot air coming off the GPU and GPU etc going into the back compartment. I recommend making it intake. (Literally orientate your fans 180 degrees from my previous posts pic as another photo to reference). Intake in this context means a fan on the side panel will suck in cool air from outside the case and push it inside your case. This will create cool air flow into the back compartment which will help keeps the disks mounted back there cooler along with also helping cool the PSU. This means if your fan(s) are mounted to the side panel area and you are looking into your case, you will be looking at the rear of the fan, where the support braces and hub are

 

Consider this pic. Notice you can see the "front" side of the fan facing the inside of the case? This side of the fan is where air will be sucked into, aka, the intake side. Meaning air from inside the case gets sucked into this fan, and then exhausts the hot air outside of the case. Considering all this as a whole, this fan is acting as an exhaust fan, which is perfectly appropriate.

 

Notice how on these fans you do not see the "front" of the fan. Instead you see the "rear" of the fan from inside the case. Take notice of the yellow lines I drew over the support brace on the backside of the fan. This is an easy way to identify which side is the front or rear. The "hub" is on the rear. If you took those stickers off this is where you would place a drop of something like 3 in 1 oil to lubricate it. The rear side is the side with these braces. If you were to pick up a fan and look at the side with these braces, if that fan was turned on it would be blowing air into your face. If you then turned it around so the braces are facing away from you, it would be blowing air away from your face. So based on the orientation the fan is installed is what determines if it is acting like intake or exhaust. The front fans are therefore acting as intake, also perfectly appropriate

Right now you have front to rear case air flow and more intake than exhaust which is good in my opinion. it creates more positive air pressure which means if there is more air coming in, than going out, it makes it much harder for dust to settle into your system.

 

 

You have a problem if you're even close to 100C. Even though 80C is acceptable, 70C sounds more in line where you should be according to reviews. This is why I think the power limit was cranked to reach those high temps.

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i5-11400f/21.html

Dear @skizzosjt,

thank you very much for your kind reply!
I think I am understanding.

So, I'll mount a new fan on that lateral panel as intake.

I dont want to push my cpu, so I can save some money here and invest on 2 more fans to mount on the top of the case...here I have a lot of place! It is good to put them intake here also? I was thinking to put one next to the front and maybe the other one above the cpu. Or it is bettere to mount one on the bottom as exhaust?

Sorry for the questions but you are helping me a lot and I'd like to learn something!

 

[skizzosjt]

1 hour ago, xevious1974 said:

Dear @skizzosjt,

thank you very much for your kind reply!
I think I am understanding.

So, I'll mount a new fan on that lateral panel as intake.

I dont want to push my cpu, so I can save some money here and invest on 2 more fans to mount on the top of the case...here I have a lot of place! It is good to put them intake here also? I was thinking to put one next to the front and maybe the other one above the cpu. Or it is bettere to mount one on the bottom as exhaust?

Sorry for the questions but you are helping me a lot and I'd like to learn something!

 

The red arrows are where fans should be orientated as exhaust (rear of case, and top of case). The blue arrows are where fans should be intake (side panel, front of case, and bottom of case). So if you wanted fans on the bottom of the case, they should be intake, sucking in cool air into your case. If you added fans to top of the case, those should be exhaust, blowing hot air out of the case.

No problem about the questions, hopefully you have come away with a little more knowledge and confidence in how to setup your cooling.

 

[xevious1974]

1 minute ago, skizzosjt said:

The red arrows are where fans should be orientated as exhaust (rear of case, and top of case). The blue arrows are where fans should be intake (side panel, front of case, and bottom of case). So if you wanted fans on the bottom of the case, they should be intake, sucking in cool air into your case. If you added fans to top of the case, those should be exhaust, blowing hot air out of the case.

No problem about the questions, hopefully you have come away with a little more knowledge and confidence in how to setup your cooling.

 

You are great!

I never thought about orienting the fans like that. 
Now I proceed with the purchase of 3 beautiful fans and then when I have assembled everything, I will send you a photo. We'll see if I've been a careful student!

I have to setup in a better way my cables, they are too long and I' am having some trouble to put them all behind. I was searching for shorter cables but seems that it is better to use the one packed with the psu. (I have bought 3 cables to make the case pretty but I have discovered that they are extensions...too cables can creates too vulnerabilities I think).

Thank you again!!!!!

So precious tips!

[skizzosjt]

9 minutes ago, xevious1974 said:

You are great!

I never thought about orienting the fans like that. 
Now I proceed with the purchase of 3 beautiful fans and then when I have assembled everything, I will send you a photo. We'll see if I've been a careful student!

I have to setup in a better way my cables, they are too long and I' am having some trouble to put them all behind. I was searching for shorter cables but seems that it is better to use the one packed with the psu. (I have bought 3 cables to make the case pretty but I have discovered that they are extensions...too cables can creates too vulnerabilities I think).

Thank you again!!!!!

So precious tips!

Sounds great man! Sure thing, show off the finished setup when you get it all setup!

Honestly I thought the photos from the backside of your case look very neat and tidy. That middle support brace on the back of these cases sure do an excellent job hiding cables that otherwise look like a rats nest lol. Upfront you could minimize cable clutter a little more by making better use of the access holes or maybe twisting the HDD around 180 degrees to position the end where the data and power hook ups are, to point towards the rear so it's better aligned with one of the access holes along the bottom.

I'm not sure if there are shorter PSU cables available on the market, but I'd advise against them unless they specifically say they work with your exact PSU model. You absolutely cannot get a cable out of PSU box A and use it on PSU B.....even if the connectors fit. here's a read for details on that if you're interested to learn why

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2702-psa-on-mixing-modular-psu-cables-dont-do-it

You are right about extensions. They are more points of failure whether it's at the connectors or the cables themselves, the signal can attenuate the further the distance they need to travel, etc. Not saying extensions are bad, but they should only be used if necessary to minimize adding additional points of failure. If a single cable is long enough, then use that instead of two shorter cables hooked together. If the cables length is just giving you hassle to make things look neat and tidy then get yourself some velcro strips because you can adjust those as many times as needed and start tying down cables in the rear compartment since this will help squish them down to take up less space and could fit more back there, and hopefully in a more manageable and tidy fashion too.

 

[xevious1974]

1 hour ago, skizzosjt said:

Sounds great man! Sure thing, show off the finished setup when you get it all setup!

Honestly I thought the photos from the backside of your case look very neat and tidy. That middle support brace on the back of these cases sure do an excellent job hiding cables that otherwise look like a rats nest lol. Upfront you could minimize cable clutter a little more by making better use of the access holes or maybe twisting the HDD around 180 degrees to position the end where the data and power hook ups are, to point towards the rear so it's better aligned with one of the access holes along the bottom.

 

Hey, great idea! Why I have fixed it in that way??? ahhahaha I have ordered 3 fans. I'll set all. I'll see the best arrangement, maybe turning HD, 1 fan bottom, 1 top over cpu-ram, 1 on the panel
I'll try to arrange the cables, I have bought an hub controller, maybe I can put togheter the new cables (fans and argb), anyway it is very funny!

 

1 hour ago, skizzosjt said:

I'm not sure if there are shorter PSU cables available on the market, but I'd advise against them unless they specifically say they work with your exact PSU model. You absolutely cannot get a cable out of PSU box A and use it on PSU B.....even if the connectors fit. here's a read for details on that if you're interested to learn why

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2702-psa-on-mixing-modular-psu-cables-dont-do-it

You are right about extensions. They are more points of failure whether it's at the connectors or the cables themselves, the signal can attenuate the further the distance they need to travel, etc. Not saying extensions are bad, but they should only be used if necessary to minimize adding additional points of failure. If a single cable is long enough, then use that instead of two shorter cables hooked together. If the cables length is just giving you hassle to make things look neat and tidy then get yourself some velcro strips because you can adjust those as many times as needed and start tying down cables in the rear compartment since this will help squish them down to take up less space and could fit more back there, and hopefully in a more manageable and tidy fashion too.

 

After reading the article I say "NO", I'll keep my perfect cables. I'have looked on the coolermaster site (my psu) to see if there are some different cables, but they sells only extensions. So I have to learn to accomodate the cables.

20 years ago, we never had such problems. We were searching only for power. Now argb and a good look is also requested. I mean...I like it!

Thank you again, truly!

[xevious1974]

Dear @skizzosjt,

I have mounted all. I tried to be clean with the cable and I have some improvements!

Here it is!

and it works!!!

For now temperatures have touched for a second 84° but usually does not go over 68°

I have only to check an hard disk that is became a lot slow...checking tool tell me that is ok. Maybe I have to set better sata cable.

I have put 3 fans on the same point on top and 3 argb on the same point on top

On bottom I have 3 argb on 1 and 2 fans on1 and 1on1

Thank you again for your precious support!

Regards

[skizzosjt]

On 10/27/2022 at 1:04 PM, xevious1974 said:

Dear @skizzosjt,

I have mounted all. I tried to be clean with the cable and I have some improvements!

Here it is!

and it works!!!

For now temperatures have touched for a second 84° but usually does not go over 68°

I have only to check an hard disk that is became a lot slow...checking tool tell me that is ok. Maybe I have to set better sata cable.

I have put 3 fans on the same point on top and 3 argb on the same point on top

On bottom I have 3 argb on 1 and 2 fans on1 and 1on1

Thank you again for your precious support!

Regards

looks good man! sorry to hear the HDD is becoming slow. if by checking tool you mean something that gives you the S.M.A.R.T. report then that's good it says it's OK but I then wouldn't know why it's becoming slow, usually SMART reports give some sort of warning about that. Other wise download a monitoring tool like HWInfo64 to get the SMART report because perhaps it would have an error/warning message about the disks health.

[xevious1974]

On 10/29/2022 at 4:12 PM, skizzosjt said:

looks good man! sorry to hear the HDD is becoming slow. if by checking tool you mean something that gives you the S.M.A.R.T. report then that's good it says it's OK but I then wouldn't know why it's becoming slow, usually SMART reports give some sort of warning about that. Other wise download a monitoring tool like HWInfo64 to get the SMART report because perhaps it would have an error/warning message about the disks health.

Dear @skizzosjt

Thank you again for your reply.

I was using HWmonitor64 but seems that HWinfo64 is much more accurate.

Are you able to understand what this means?

[Self-Monitoring, Analysis and Reporting Technology (S.M.A.R.T.)]
	[01] Raw Read Error Rate:	100/1, Worst: 100
	[02] Throughput Performance:	138/54, Worst: 138 (Data = 96,0)
	[03] Spin Up Time:	82/1, Worst: 82 (Data = 25035110,7)
	[04] Start/Stop Count:	98/Always OK, Worst: 98 (Data = 1037,0)
	[05] Reallocated Sector Count:	100/1, Worst: 100
	[07] Seek Error Rate:	100/1, Worst: 100
	[08] Seek Time Performance:	133/20, Worst: 133 (Data = 18,0)
	[09] Power-on Hours/Cycle Count:	100/Always OK, Worst: 100 (3673 hours / 153.0 days)
	[0A] Spin Retry Count:	100/1, Worst: 100
	[0C] Power Cycle Count:	93/Always OK, Worst: 93 (Data = 523,0)
	[16] Current Helium Level:	100/25, Worst: 100 (Data = 100,0)
	[C0] Power-Off Retract Count:	100/Always OK, Worst: 100 (Data = 3120,0)
	[C1] Load/Unload Cycle Count:	100/Always OK, Worst: 100 (Data = 3120,0)
	[C2] Temperature:	65/Always OK, Worst: 65 (30.0 °C)
	[C4] Reallocation Event Count:	100/Always OK, Worst: 100
	[C5] Current Pending Sector Count:	100/Always OK, Worst: 100
	[C6] Off-Line Uncorrectable Sector Count:	100/Always OK, Worst: 100
	[C7] UltraDMA/SATA CRC Error Rate:   I think I owe you something  for the support! Thank you!	100/Always OK, Worst: 100

Edited November 1, 2022 by xevious1974

[skizzosjt]

hey there @xevious1974! It's familiar enough to understand but not quite what I expected from HWInfo64. The way I'm interpreting it is these are the SMART parameters and are telling you the min and max values so you know if you have any issues going on. Only the ones with "(Data = ABCXYZ)" at the end appear to have actual values associated with them. If they are blank I'm guessing that would mean nothing pertinent was recorded for that parameter. I'm no expert here but nothing jumps out as a red flag as a major problem, but this is something that looks funny.

Spin Up Time: 82/1, Worst: 82 (Data = 25035110,7)

That really large value for spin up time seems out of place and this could impact how quick things feel running off a HDD. So I'm not saying you must start backing up all your data thinking the disk will fail, but if I were you I would monitor this value each time you use this disk for the foreseeable future to get a better idea if the number is getting worse and get a better picture if the disk is beginning to degrade. A disk that is performing worse doesn't always mean it will fail, but they can certainly be directly linked. So just keep a close eye on this before you trust this disk for storing more data

To give a somewhat more tech orientated explanation, that is the milliseconds it takes for the disk to reach the rated RPMs like 7200 RPM is a common speed for example. 82ms is acceptable....but idk wtf this huge 2503511,7 value is. If that is honestly how long it takes your disk to spin up, it could explain why it feels slow sometimes. Basically anytime the disk needs to do anything and it's not at full speed (it could be at idle for example) it's taking 25 seconds to do what it normally did in just a handful of milliseconds. You could potentially get around such a problem by turning off any power saving features for the disk, so this way it wouldn't go into an idle/sleep state when not in use. But that might wear the disk out even faster if it is in fact getting worn out. These are just guesstimates since I haven't had any first hand experience with this particular value giving me a concern so take the advice with a grain of salt

 

There should be some additional stuff that comes up by default in HWInfo64. For example here is one of my drives that is in good shape. I figured you might have a "Drive Warning" error which is an easy way to figure out if SMART sees anything funny going on.  You would want to see "No" in these fields indicating no errors, failures or warnings were detected

Now here is a disk that is still in "good" shape, but has a few pending sectors (sectors that were reallocated due to errors more or less) and has a Drive Warning error as a result, rightfully so. This value, if a high number or keeps growing is a legit reason to be concerned and start backing up your files immediately

Though to put it into perspective, 353 sectors....there are 512 bytes per sector, that's 180,224 bytes or basically 180KB......not exactly a lot of space lol so even though sometimes errors occur they might not be so bad as initially thought. This is a 4TB spinner, I'm not too concerned about the 180KB because it hasn't grown in quite a while.

Wanted to share that example to help reiterate the point that an error or disk that isn't performing as good as it did on day 1 doesn't mean it will fail, but it at least means you should watch it closer. Should things trend in the direction of getting worse, it's going to continue like that and at that point you would now know it's time to back up the data and replace the drive or at least use it in a way where you don't mind if the data was lost