The Simpson's Cartoon Studio (1996) - No DOS install

[EviLEd]

I was curious to know if there is a guide for installing games that were meant for Win95/98se with LaunchBox? This game cannot be installed from DOS. I am using LaunchBox v3.1 The game is in BIN/CUE format. I was able to mount it successfully with Deamon Tools v4.49.1.0356 and view the contents of the image from within DosBox. When i ran setup.exe it returned "win setup.exe - Illegal command: win." which means this game cannot be installed from DOS. I understand that LaunchBox/DosBox are meant for 'DOS' and not for Windows. But i was hoping there would be a procedure to install old Windows games without relying on VMware/VirtualBox/GOG.com. A couple of guides on installing Win95 in DosBox listed here if all else fails. http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=17324 http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=24936 Thanks, EviLEd.

[bd00]

Have you tried installing it in Windows using compatibility mode? Works for some old titles for me.

[Jason Carr]

Hi Ed, welcome to the forums. Older Windows games are unfortunately the hardest and least-reliable types of games to get working on modern systems. Sadly, you could be in for quite a battle in getting the game to run. LaunchBox has nothing to help you there, unfortunately. Bd00 is right though, the first thing to try is to see if you can get the game working in compatibility mode inside Windows. Maybe do some searches on that game in particular to see if anyone has done it. It might work, it might not. If it doesn't, then maybe Windows 95 in DOSBox might work. Personally, though, I don't have any experience with that. Good luck! Do let us know if you get it working and what worked best.

[EviLEd]

bd00 said Have you tried installing it in Windows using compatibility mode? Works for some old titles for me.

That's the first thing i tried before i tried DosBox. But thanks for the reply.

[EviLEd]

Jason Carr said Hi Ed, welcome to the forums. Older Windows games are unfortunately the hardest and least-reliable types of games to get working on modern systems. Sadly, you could be in for quite a battle in getting the game to run. LaunchBox has nothing to help you there, unfortunately. Bd00 is right though, the first thing to try is to see if you can get the game working in compatibility mode inside Windows. Maybe do some searches on that game in particular to see if anyone has done it. It might work, it might not. If it doesn't, then maybe Windows 95 in DOSBox might work. Personally, though, I don't have any experience with that. Good luck! Do let us know if you get it working and what worked best.

Thanks for getting back to me. If i have any success, even limited success, i will report back my findings. I really like the interface you created and i hope to make it work....somehow.

[EviLEd]

I had some success using this http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/install-and-use-windows-xp-mode-in-windows-7 Video Tutorial on how it works http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/help/videos/using-windows-xp-mode#tab=desktop Files needed Windows XP Mode v1.3.7600.16423 http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=8002 Windows Virtual PC v6.1.7600.16393 http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=3702 Optional Files Virtual CD-ROM Control Pane v2.0.1.1 http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=38780 WinISO v6.4.0.5170 http://www.winiso.com/download.html System Requirements Any version of Windows 7. Windows 8 does not support Windows XP Mode v1.3.7600.16423. Instructions 1. Install Windows XP Mode v1.3.7600.16423. 2. Install Windows Virtual PC v6.1.7600.16393. Reboot. 3. My game was in BIN/CUE format so i had to convert it to ISO with WinISO v6.4.0.5170. 4. Open Start-Programs-Windows Virtual PC-Windows XP Mode. It will take a few mins to setup the virtual machine. Once complete it will log you into Windows XP. 5. Open Virtual CD-ROM Control Pane v2.0.1.1 inside the Windows XP virtual machine or mount the ISO on the Host machine. The Windows XP virtual machine will automatically map drives to all available drives on the Host machine. 6. Install the game. 7. When complete, shutdown the virtual machine PROPERLY. Don't click on 'X' to close the virtual machine. It will put the virtual machine in hibernation instead of shutting it down. 8. Open LaunchBox. From the menu bar click on Game then add. Enter a Title for the game. 9. In the field for Application Path enter the shortcut to the game. Mine was located here C:-Users-Administrator-AppData-Roaming-Microsoft-Windows-Start Menu-Programs-Windows Virtual PC-Windows XP Mode Applications-Fox Interactive-Simpsons Cartoon Studio (Windows XP Mode).lnk 10. This is where i got stuck. The game will open full screen, but prompt me to put in the CD. Whether i kept the ISO mounted on the Host system or with Virtual CD-ROM Control Pane it still didn't work. There is an option in Virtual CD-ROM Control Pane to keep the ISO mounted persistently but it didn't work for me. I did not try to burn the image and leave it in the drive on the Host machine. That will be the next test. I am trying to avoid using a 'NoCD' crack.

[Jason Carr]

Wow, looks awesome, Ed. I'll take a look in detail tonight.

[Jason Carr]

Cool, Ed. A couple of things. As you probably know, "Windows XP Mode" is basically just Virtual PC, which is a similar technology to Hyper-V on Windows 8. So once you have the Windows XP image, you can copy it over to any Windows 8 or 8.1 machine without issues, and you can run it inside of Hyper-V, which is Microsoft's latest virtualization technology. Just throwing that out there. As per the "missing CD" issue, unfortunately I think if the game did employ an anti-copying mechanism on the game disc, nothing is going to work sans for maybe using something like Daemon Tools to emulate it (it can mount an ISO a fake the copyright protection). In all honesty, though, NoCD cracks are almost always easier. It's ridiculous to have to use them when you own the CD, agreed, but sometimes you run out of other options. Also worth noting is that .bin/.cue files provide slightly better representation of an actual game disc, so it's possible that some of it was lost during the conversion, which is causing the problem. I kind of doubt it though. Last thing; VMware I believe does have a free version out now as well, and traditionally they've handled games much better in their virtual environments than MS has, so that might be worth a shot. Sounds like you've made pretty good progress though. Thanks for sharing it all with us.

[EviLEd]

Hey Jason, I should have stated earlier that i wanted this to look like it was running from Windows 7 through LaunchBox. Which it is doing since it creates Start Menu shortcuts in Windows 7 and runs full screen without any boarders.

Jason Carr said Cool, Ed. A couple of things. As you probably know, "Windows XP Mode" is basically just Virtual PC, which is a similar technology to Hyper-V on Windows 8. So once you have the Windows XP image, you can copy it over to any Windows 8 or 8.1 machine without issues, and you can run it inside of Hyper-V, which is Microsoft's latest virtualization technology. Just throwing that out there.

Agreed. I wanted to be clear that the process above was meant for Windows 7 only. As per the first link http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/install-and-use-windows-xp-mode-in-windows-7 "Windows XP Mode isn't supported on Windows 8."

Jason Carr said As per the "missing CD" issue, unfortunately I think if the game did employ an anti-copying mechanism on the game disc, nothing is going to work sans for maybe using something like Daemon Tools to emulate it (it can mount an ISO a fake the copyright protection). In all honesty, though, NoCD cracks are almost always easier. It's ridiculous to have to use them when you own the CD, agreed, but sometimes you run out of other options. Also worth noting is that .bin/.cue files provide slightly better representation of an actual game disc, so it's possible that some of it was lost during the conversion, which is causing the problem. I kind of doubt it though.

The first thing i tried was Daemon Tools Lite v4.49. But that broke the virtual machine and required a re-install of Windows XP Mode and Virtual PC. i had to convert the BIN/CUE to ISO because it wasn't supported by Virtual CD-ROM Control Pane. Once Virtual PC was shut down or put into hibernation mode it also closed Virtual CD-ROM Control Pane. I don't think the persistent mounting option works in Virtual PC the way i want it to.

Jason Carr said Last thing; VMware I believe does have a free version out now as well, and traditionally they've handled games much better in their virtual environments than MS has, so that might be worth a shot. Sounds like you've made pretty good progress though. Thanks for sharing it all with us.

You can install VMware Player v6.0.3-1895310(free) and run Windows XP inside of that. Enable 'Unity Mode' to make it look like it's running on Windows 7 and not in a box with boarders. But as you stated, running the games within VMware Workstation full screen is probably the best option. If i can move past the mounting of the image i can use your wonderful GUI!

[Jason Carr]

Yeah, who knows if VMware would be more compatible with Daemon Tools or not. Personally I've never tried Daemon Tools with Virtual PC or VMware. I think I'm out of ideas...hope you can figure out something.

[SentaiBrad]

If you get VMWare or Virtual Box and install Windows XP or 98 inside, in the program its self you can have the program look at an iso. The same way you would have the program see the OS Iso, do that but for the game. You can do one of two things, have the Program point towards the physical disc, or get ImgBurn and create an Iso from the disc. Either way both should work. I would also greatly suggest VMWare (Paid) or VirtualBox (Free) over Windows Virtualization. They don't update it the same way the other 2 programs do. This is pretty much the only reliable way to get W95 and W98 games installed. D-Fend Reloaded (At least im pretty sure...) has an option to check if it was a Windows executable. Either option is not going to involve LaunchBox however. Though if D-Fend has the option to check off for a Windows game I am sure LB could have the same functionality. I do know as well that D-Fend will tell you if an exe is a windows executable because it can detect if its 16bit, and for the time that's what it would be, not 32bit.

[EviLEd]

SentaiBrad said If you get VMWare or Virtual Box and install Windows XP or 98 inside, in the program its self you can have the program look at an iso. The same way you would have the program see the OS Iso, do that but for the game. You can do one of two things, have the Program point towards the physical disc, or get ImgBurn and create an Iso from the disc. Either way both should work. I would also greatly suggest VMWare (Paid) or VirtualBox (Free) over Windows Virtualization. They don't update it the same way the other 2 programs do.

I use VMware Workstation(paid) everyday for work. But i was trying to find something for everyone with the smallest footprint possible. With that said....i am a little embarrassed that i overlooked the CD/DVD emulation built into Virtual PC(thanks for pointing out the obvious). Once i mounted the ISO located on the host machine in Virtual PC it worked perfectly. I launched the game from the Windows 7 Start Menu and LaunchBox. Is there a way to edit an old post?

[SentaiBrad]

Hey no problem. I've doing a lot of this stuff for a really long time, and for some odd reason I get a memory bank going of crap I just remember. Sometimes that's not the case, but with tech stuff I really love... yeaaa. As far as a standard for everyone to be able to use, VirtualBox parodies VMWare very very well, and its completely free. You get a bit more direct customer service I would assume with VMWare and a bit more sophistication just for the fact that it is probably someones job. That said, Virtual Box is still extremely fantastic. I believe its also Cross Platform. If you have any more questions feel free to ask them. I'm generally around unless I'm asleep.

[Jason Carr]

Ha, nice. Glad you guys got this figured out. I completely missed the fact that Ed hadn't mounted the CD directly in VirtualPC. Thanks, Brad.

[Jason Carr]

What I'm most curious about, though, is how performance is (and 3D acceleration even perhaps?) between VirtualBox, VirtualPC/Hyper-V, and VMware. Brad/Ed, have you compared them?

[SentaiBrad]

I haven't compared them no. I never wanted to. Where Windows 7 wouldn't work with Compatibility Running, Windows 8 was fixing those problems. I am also not a fan of virtualizing an OS just to play games. That said, it all depends on your host system. If you have an 8 physical core 3.5GHz CPU and 32GB of RAM, your Virtual Machine is going to run smooth because you can give it more resources. If you're strapped on resources and are forced to give it less its going to get tricky. Its emulation. Basic rule of emulation is that the system you are running the emulation on better be 3-8x more powerful. Its a big disparity because it depends on the maturity of the emulation code, compatibility etc. So honestly, its never worth it to me. I never checked. Based on things I've read and the release schedule of the programs. VMWare is probably the best overall. If you can install Windows 98, give it 1GB or 2GB of ram (you may be limited because of the old OS architecture) and allow it to use 2 cores of your CPU, you should be fine as long as you can double or triple that with your System. Even then, its going to be more laggy just for the fact that you have to emulate the OS, then run a game in there. I know it can be done. I ran Diablo 2 on an XP VMWare. It ran..... thats about all I can say. I didn't give ita big pool of resources though. They're not ideal. Best bet is to look on eBay or flea markets etc for a 486 with Windows 3.11 / DOS 6 or an old Pentium with Windows 98 more specifically. Obviously because DOSBox made everything from the DOS era better to do now. There is no emulator for Windows 95-98 era games. I did get Black and White running just a few days ago and that's 2001.

[Jason Carr]

Yeah, agreed. I have an old Pentium II just for that. But that said, it certainly would be nice to be able to run them all from one machine.

[EviLEd]

Jason Carr said What I'm most curious about, though, is how performance is (and 3D acceleration even perhaps?) between VirtualBox, VirtualPC/Hyper-V, and VMware. Brad/Ed, have you compared them?

No not yet. This was the first real test i had run. I only have 2 old PC games at the moment. The second being Unreal Tournament (1999) and that runs perfectly on Windows 7 x64.

[EviLEd]

Jason Carr said Yeah, agreed. I have an old Pentium II just for that. But that said, it certainly would be nice to be able to run them all from one machine.

All of my testing is on a Dell Optiplex 745 (2006). Intel 3ghz dual core, 800mhz FSB, 8GB DDR2 ram with a Nvidia Gefore GT 430 http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-geforce-gt-430-oem-us.html.