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Posts posted by Freestate
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On 12/4/2024 at 9:07 PM, faeran said:
Hi everyone,
We did deploy a small(ish) update to the database in preparation for a few things. Sharing the changelog here where we can discuss any questions anyone might have regarding the changes. There will be more to come for database changes before the end of the month, so stay tuned.
- Added support for Poster, Square, and Icon image types for games
- Fixed issues causing corrupted changes in the moderation queue
- Fixed a few game locking system issues
As far as the new image types are concerned, users have the ability to upload images for these types at the moment to start populating the database, but keep the following things in mind with regards to what they are for:
- Poster: A 2:3 aspect ratio image representing the main image of the game
- Square: A 1:1 aspect ratio image representing the main image of the game
- Icon: A small icon that represents the game in question
I think it's more important to add fanart categories for box 3d and clear logo in addition to creating a reconstructed category for the carts. Many users insist on adding fan creations in the two mentioned categories, which causes that when any user assigns region priorities the downloaded media is unpredictable, mixing fan creations with authentic media. On the other hand, presenting good looking carts for the cart categories is very difficult, so it's usual to reconstruct them using templates, but since there is no category for reconstructed there is always the possibility that some user will reassign them, and having real photos mixed with reconstructed cartridges is not optimal. The fanart cart category can be used but that also ends up mixing reconstructions with fan creations. Please add those three categories. Fanart Box 3D, Fanart Clear Logo, Cart front Reconstructed. The lack of them has created many problems in moderation for years and a lot of extra work.
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7 hours ago, C-Beats said:
That being said I was also reviewing the reasons given for some of the change requests and not thrilled with some of the verbiage used in the reasons either. I can understand the frustrations you're feeling and in many ways feel it as well when I come across some fairly erroneous data/images in the database. That being said I'd ask that we all be a bit more diligent in maintaining a level of respectable decorum when submitted your requests. If you're getting to the point that you feel the need to swear or use obscenities at the random people who are going to see your request then I personally would rather you just take a break from it. If you're seeing a lot of submissions that are obvious breaks of the rules let us know and we can dig into it a bit more and hopefully get it corrected. We've been spending quite a bit of time building up various tools we can use to more quickly/easily monitor things like this and take action where required but still could use the heads up if you all are seeing trends we need to keep an eye out for.
I think I have explained in detail that the problems of competition between criteria when moderating and contributing content is because the criteria have not been updated or expanded since the initial lax draft, and the database still needs features that have been requested for years. I can perfectly understand the challenge that this represents at the programming level or that the developer simply does not care or like to get involved. What I do not find acceptable is that at this point moderation and contribution continues to be a wild field where the troll actions of a newcomer matter as much as the work of hundreds of hours of people who really take the community seriously to keep everything in order. I do not know how to ask for it now without it falling on deaf ears that it would be appropriate for the most veteran users and those with more participation to be able to share their proposals for improvement and the problems they have encountered, to be able to agree on criteria and to expand reforms to the rules to add media moderation. For my part, it's not that I want any medals or to be the freak guardian of any dungeon, but I think it's very frustrating to continually see these battles of criteria, ambiguities, and that any dispute or difference of criteria is resolved by seeing who is more stubborn or when the moderators are more distracted to sneak in your stuff.
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1 hour ago, JereBear said:
What we expect when our moderation guidelines come from post written 8 years ago with 30 pages of comments following. I think this all needs to be looked over and updated.
I also agree with needing more categories/image types
Personally, I don't know what to do or say anymore. Without taking credit, I have to say that I've worked my ass off offering thousands of hours of work searching for and restoring covers and moderating, trying to make the launchbox database something minimally organized and of quality despite its shortcomings. But it has been proven over the years that the database and the quality of the media that is uploaded is something that either due to personal tastes or laziness is something that the developers barely touch or are interested in to the extent that would be necessary, in my opinion. Both the contributions and the moderation always end up being a war between rigorous users who make an effort and dozens of capricious or lazy users who upload and/or approve anything thinking only of their personal whim. There is no meritocracy, there is no dialogue or improvements... the database lacks adequate categories to upload the tons of fanmedia that many users insist on uploading when it is not even complete in terms of real media. I have already opened multiple tickets, I have made requests for dialogue and improvements in the forums and it is always preaching in the desert. And when you really get angry because you see that the free work you do in favor of the entire community is not respected and you raise the tone, what you get is either a sanction or the matter being closed falsely. If there were no rigorous users, the database would end up 100% invaded by custom fanmedia boxes with USA style and their logos on practically all platforms, even if they are digital platforms that did not come from Japan, arcade or whatever... there are users who do not care that the media available is real, they only want their custom box with an American design and they push again and again without any regulation... the latest has already been to start adding steamgrid style covers... which I think would be great... if we had some way to separate them and there were no "smart guys" who insisted on labeling them as real boxes or from real regions. It really kills me to try to download a custom box that's consistent with the real ones and see poster-style boxes that have nothing to do with them. The latest disaster? A user uploading custom boxes that look like real ones in the arcade section. The fanart section? He doesn't give a damn, he does his thing, with a bit of luck lazy users will approve it and he'll get away with having boxes and not having to worry about changing the import options in the app.
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13 minutes ago, Arthurcoutinho600 said:
But the category is right, around my moderations, its saying fan art box art or fan art cart so yeah that user is deleting fanarts without reason saying not official or fanmade.
Sadly, some notifications in moderation that seem like trolling, end up being counter-trolling due to abuses of the database by other users. As I have told you, there are users who selfishly fill and approve the fanmedia database in all categories, driven by a personal need for all their media to be in North American format, making it impossible and unpredictable to know what type of data and of what quality you download. It is normal that some users get fed up and request deletions without giving reasons because they are tired of seeing the same things. In my opinion there are too many botched jobs in the database and very little effort to provide consistent, real and restored art by many users. For example currently the majority of SNES carts are located in the fanart cart category only because a user had a personal crusade to remove the restorations that I mostly made using a generic template. Since there is no RECONSTRUCTED category for carts I had to move them to fanart cart but other users there are really busy uploading fudges from USA cartridges and you have to upload them regionless if you don't want to have unpredictable downloads when you select regional priorities. It's infuriating. There should have been separate categories for all types of fanmedia years ago because there are users who want to customize their experience 100% and their insistence on forcing their art entry without having the proper categories in the database and some shortcomings in the download configuration turn everything into chaos.
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3 hours ago, Arthurcoutinho600 said:
hello faeran
there are a troll or account that deleting fanart box art and carts without reason. the fan art box art and carts are allowed by the rules and have category right?
well around my moderations, there's someone that criticized the poor quality about the fan art images and criticized the database, saying that the database have some walkaround crap or retarded fanarts and i reject the changes
I think the database should have some segurity about trolls and i think the database should have some more fan art category like clear logo and box 3d
Thanks a lot
The only available categories for fan art boxes are fanart box front and fanart box back. Many users are stuffing normal categories with tons of fanmedia, and the problem is that downloading fanmedia must be transparent and optional to the users not a mixed chaos. That user is right when he says that just picking a regional priority you can't know if you're downloading real art or fanmedia if some users insist on stuffing non legit media in normal categories. Please use the categories with acuracy.
And yeah, it's not necesary to have fanboxes with a flattened and distorted image or poor quality. Fanmedia is optional not something mandatory, some entries are ridiculous with 5, 6 or 7 fanboxes with slight diferences and not overall quality.
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5 hours ago, Getaway said:
I can understand your point of view, but remember that the simple fact of requesting a ticket does not violate any rules. There are several sites allowed in the rules and many other extra-official,Which also treat it as separate games for having a different character. This has many interpretations and here all you have to do is apply the rules when moderating and double check.
That is what is being talked about here:
Again, I reiterate that I respect your point of view, but I think it is not appropriate for the reason to provide a link to this post, what you have to do is provide the admissible sources that support the petition. I am only saying this as a constructive point, because it gives me the feeling that it seems that it is necessary to vote to unite them when there is also information that indicates the opposite.
A greeting and my maximum respects.
There's no point of keeping separate. Launchbox itself gives the oportunity of keep merged the different regional versions or keep separated, and all the data was added, included extra alternate naming, clear logos of the brazilian versions to avoid overlapping. IIt is disheartening that at this point, after so many years and thousands of hours contributed to the community, despite having given solid reasons, the final decision depends on 3 users who click ok just because potatoe, because they are fed up or because another external page does not any relationship now turns out to be the maximum criterion. I myself have been a user of mobygames and gamefaqs and they had duplicate entries and I was the one who corrected them, they are not the holy grail. And there's enought proof looking at videos that thery are the same games with minor changes.
What annoys me is that we had the same ridiculous discussion years ago over a more extreme case. The first snes fighting ranma that in its American version changed all the graphics, in the end people were convinced that it was the same game, but I had to listen to everything, and it was not pretty.
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On 1/12/2023 at 1:22 AM, Fugus said:
I have noticed that there seems to be two schools of thought when it comes to the media.
1) That if the game never was officially released, it should not have a default front box type of at all, it can only have fan art boxes. This is somewhat understandable if they are going to be completely literal about it. These people also feel the same way when it comes to WiiWare titles that they aren't supposed to have a box that is anything other than it's menu icon, anything else should be labeled as fan art. Then you have....
2) That the best images should be set as the menu box for a game. If the game is a virtual console release that has no box, a decent one should at least be there as a placeholder and that having all the best versions of them there along with the officially release leads to the most readable and visually pleasing "Out of the box" results that require less tinkering to get looking decent. If it's a WiiWare title, it can have a box there to at least hold the place.
What is the general views of it here? When it comes to moderation both of them seem to be pretty common.
Also, off topic, why do people feel the need to have insanely big images? I can understand having the box being able to fill a 4k monitor I guess for people wanting to use it on their big screen across the room. But having the clear logo filling the 4k monitor is a bit much and having a game with a resolution of 720x576 but screenshots posted at 1440x1080, it just seems excessive and either that screenshot is a lot of wasted space or they increased the rendering on their emulator at which point it isn't representative of the native game anymore.We must respect the correct fields to make the media download transparent to the user and predictable. i understand that some users twist the rules by personal interest or as woraround to solve tha lacks of database (we need extra fields) or the app ( option to download fanmedia if nothing legit is available an only in that scenario). My choice is to be orthodox and if it is fanmedia only accept it if is located in the correct field.
I understand waht are you saying about the size of logos, again is a workaround due to lacking of options in database and app, maybe we must promote a build in image compression method inside launchbox to just addthe highest quality available and make the size compression an option for the users or create new fields like clear logo HD, because some themes or pause/start themes use logos at full screen size.
Jason is asking for suggestions is up to you
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8 hours ago, MITUB3R said:
Sapo Xulé clearly states in MobyGames "Additional Development by Tec Toy Indústria de Brinquedos S.A." and that is what I think that as moderators we should verify. In simple regionalization translations there is no additional development (be it a little or a lot), I think that in general, we are not here to judge the content but the data, double-checking the list of sites allowed by rule 1 and, sticking to to that, there should be no problem, because there would be the same methodology. But this in the end is a vote and that is what decides. And now giving my personal opinion, for me a game is regional when the content is exactly the same as in another country (except for the title or start images), if it has a different doll it is no longer the same, but it is just my humble opinion. I respect the others, of course.
That`s why i´ve mentioned Ranma ½ Chōnai Gekitōhen and Street Combat or The German/Spanish regionalization of We're back called Hugo. The original games were made by NCS and Kaneko respectively. Irem distributed the ranma game in USA changing all the graphics into something horrible and took credit of the full game when esentially it's just a regionalization without more alterations. The same happens with Hugo of Gameboy, Kaneko isn't mentioned in the box. But that does not mean that they are exclusive developments, what happens is that the respect to appear as the creator of the original work and respect its integrity decades ago was light at best to put it mildly. It happened with games and it happened with movies or anime, where the person who bought the rights was thought to be acquiring rights not only for distribution but also for the complete work, finding all kinds of aberrations in terms of changes, editions, names, etc. I have even mentioned anime productions such as Macross and I can also mention some of the first studio ghibli films such as Nausicaa where the distributor, in addition to cutting parts, changed names and even removed it as A PRODUCTION OF... erasing any trace of its Japanese origin and the actual study. If we have even discovered the work of some game development studios many years later through interviews because the producer or publisher did not allow their name to appear. The Brazilian versions of known master system games as if they were games entirely produced by tectoy is an example of the abuses of that time and of a market as peculiar and closed as the Brazilian one.
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1 hour ago, Fugus said:
My part about separating them into 2 databases wasn't about them being good games or not. It was based on the logic that the official/unlicensed/Virtual Console database would have a finite number of entries to it and would eventually be completed. Once it was completed, the alterations on it would be virtually nothing outside of media entries which would also eventually stop. No more having your games entries being just deleted from the database as it was merged with a clone or someone created another one of the exact game and so its original entry was deleted.
When it comes to homebrew/hacks/aftermarket those can theoretically go on forever with new entries and that list would always been messed with because of it.
So, the first list would be the one that most people collected and with a finite number of entries could really be perfected and then more or less locked while the other one would basically go on forever because there will never be a full stop to people making stuff to them for a long time. That was my logic to those changes.
Off-topic, one thing they really need to address in the entries is the resolution of the submissions. If the resolution of the system is 160 x 192 pixels, then the screenshot shouldn't be in HD or higher. Since the clear logo will never realistically take up more than 1/32nd of your screen, why does it need to be so big that I have a 1440p monitor and it has to scale it down to even fit on it for some of them.
Have me a lifetime membership to Launchbox and to EmuMovies but resorted to ScreenScraper for the screen shots and clear logos and for the movies as well due to their database approach to it since EmuMovies gives too many mismatches given their method. All I have to with the scraper is make sure my front box art matches and I know the screenshots, clear logos, and movies also match. Also, if you check some of the singing and guitar movies, they ended up just being a movie of the game asking for them to insert the controller.Certain. Very interesting what you say. Regarding the resolutions, at least in screenshots it would be very interesting if they were locked to the native resolution of the console and to PNG format, I am very bored of seeing beastly and absurd upscalings. With the logos it depends, because there are themes that use full screen logos, perhaps the best thing to do would be to put a field for the basic logo and another for the hd logo as they do in screenscraper at least for the videos, where I also get bored of the emumovies and API detection failures despite having contributed thousands of alternate names with the intention of using them recursively. I hope that once and for all the database receives improvements that have been necessary for years, I'm tired of seeing how contributors and moderators have to do workarounds for the missing fields and continually fight for things that people want to add and don't have a place specific for it.
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well, we are acepting tons of crappy romhacks in the database... if there's interactivity and was released as game, it's valid for me. The gameplay of some FMV games of the 90's it's not much more complex than just choose a path.
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On 11/28/2022 at 8:06 AM, Fugus said:
And as an extension of the file hash setup to make it more usable. Separate each system into 2 databases, one with the official, unlicensed, and virtual console like games and the other for the homebrew, aftermarket, and hacks.
My choice is just keep separated the hacks. Aftermarket and homebrew most of the time are legit and good elaborated games, the overwhelming amount of hacks with minor alterations it's something that in my opinion drives me mad.
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4 hours ago, LonestarK said:
These merges have only started in the last few weeks, and have now spread to the attempted merging of completely different games that share nothing in common other than having the same name in different regions.
Multiple users have voiced legitimate concerns and gave examples of the negative consequences that merging has on the database. Consequences that include the inability to differentiate which information is for which of the different games contained within the single entry (information like release dates, developers, publishers, and even game type, in cases such as Edd the Duck, an unreleased but leaked game); the inability to provide unique videoURLs for each of the different games showing the different gameplay/graphics or provide unique descriptions/overviews for each game's story and history; the increased burden on LaunchBox's end users to sort through the jumbled entry to determine which portion of the overview, which images, and other information applies to which game; as well as other concerns and consequences touched upon in this thread alone.
These concerns and consequences have been dismissed out of hand by a single user, with the misconception that we just always merge games around here, always have and always will. Said user, as a means of blocking further discussion, makes blanket statements insinuating that these matters have long ago been settled, but without actually referencing any specific discussion, link any topic, show any kind of statement from anyone with authority, or even quote an official guideline or rule. He uses a "just because" fallacy to protect his own misguided status quo bias, one that might not even be based on an accurate interpretation of the status quo. All of this is incredibly poor form when discussing any matter, and does not foster cooperation or debate. This user then proceeded to merge even more games together when other users illustrated that his reasoning was flawed and provided examples where different games of similar circumstances were not merged. Said user has a mistaken understanding of the concepts of "same" and "different", as well as a misunderstanding of the moderator guidelines and contributor rules.
Rule 3 states:
Rule 3 was created to merge multi-disc games which previously had an entry for each disc, and greatest hits/platinum type games which were just re-releases of their base game, but with an exception for special editions that were different from their base games and would thus maintain their own entry. It was not created for merging different games.
One of the keystones of LaunchBox's core mission statement is to make your games beautiful, another is to provide the end user with an easy-to-use frontend to easily organize without being forced to customize. The added burden to the end user as a result of this user's merges are in violation of both of these tenets. Furthermore, said user's own "merge it all" policy is inconsistent, and leads to an inconsistent experience for the end user. Why, under said user's policy, are we to ration and jumble official entries or even some unreleased prototype entries, but provide a much better service for romhacks?
I ask that all moderators stop participating in the merging of these games, as it has clear negative effects on the database and its end users, it violates the core principles of the LaunchBox frontend, and it has no basis in the moderator guidelines and contributor rules.
Let me see.... Tectoy graphical hacks = special editions. Minor regionalizations seen in multiple examples-not the same if the ones who made it are an brazilian company. Not having Brazilian hacks as independent jewels when the whole world has seen dozens of similar cases unify, something that respects the objectives of the launchbox??? Of course, your desire to defend the indefensible is exemplary.
Let me finish with a perfect example https://gamesdb.launchbox-app.com/games/images/85376 the graphical changes in USA version where extensive, more than brazilian hacks, an IREM also takes credit of the main credit, when the real game was coded by NCS. The rest of the users have already read enough to draw their own conclusions, I'm already exhausted from talking to a wall of pride.
And yes, the previous work done in the database has something to say, the decisions have not been made lightly, they are part of a previous consensus that a mixture of lies (saying that a game is totally different due to fanciful attributions of changes in history and gameplay due to small adjustments in collision boxes or some graphics, as well as a regional way of selling it again is) and tricky doubts relating special editions of current generations, they intend to sabotage. The database rules have not been updated a single line since it began, and it has been continuous work and collegiate decisions that prevent it from being a complete disaster because it still lacks some basic fields/tags for some media.
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On 1/15/2023 at 1:30 AM, BloodyThorn said:
Wow. This discussion is well more heated that it needs to be.
I'll just continue to skip these Sega games so I can continue to contribute.
I wanted a resolution, not a gathering of salt.
Well there's a good explanation of why are the same game, giving examples of other games, with notifications of videos on youtube when it's crystal clear that are simple and minor graphic alterations. But someones, and i'm still trying to know why, twisted the arguments by talking about examples that persisted in the database separated, when it was simply that they had not been detected so far, I had to read outright lies in the successive re-uploads, saying they were totally different games in gameplay, history, etc when anyone can examine gameplays on youtube to see that they have simple graphic changes and no alteration in the gameplay beyond the dirty shoe of toad xule. And the height of cherrypicking has been to appeal to the special or goty editions, which is something totally alien to the 8-16 bit generation where we have always proceeded by unifying them in merged entries. But there are those who have made it their personal crusade and many others have ended up fed up. All entries have been merged and the rest deleted, there are only 2 undeleted remnants of the Brazilians due to a bug in the database. Stop collaborating by ignoring the deletions and allowing those who have been headstrong to go against the policy followed for years to continue trolling.
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19 hours ago, kurzih said:
Could you please stop with this nonsense? I can still see some absurd behaviour on the database. And it's causing some unwanted side-effects:
For example in the Commodore 64 section, there's a few games named the same that have been made in DIFFERENT TIME by DIFFERENT DEVELOPERS in both EUROPE and NORTH AMERICA - something like "Aliens (European Version)" "Aliens (US Version). These versions are NOTHING alike. And now someone has this foolish idea of trying to delete them because they are "regional" and the "same" and should be put under one entry. That's just BS. I think if you're not familiar with a platform and its history - please stay away from it. And this seems more like someone just getting mad, because by simply using some common sense and looking at the screenshots you'd understand that they are not the same version.I've been trying to add MISSING IMAGES these past days. Instead of going back and forth with this feud, could you please help me instead? There's THOUSANDS of missing Spines - we'd like to see those 3D models looks sublime. But now the database seem stuck with this "Regional mayhem and debates" and on top of it someone deleting hundreds of his fan-art discs (consider NOT uploading temporary things in the database, instead use the forum and offer them as optional downloads instead).
The repeated deletion demands it's due to a delete bug present in the database, when a entry it's not deleted some users mark them with DELETE DUPLICATE in main title and clean up this entries with no image data. The entries are already deleted a dozen times, but due to the ad nauseam feeling of some moderators that are ignoring the deletion demands, the bug and some re-uploads and vanzalizing on the merged entries there's still a couple of remnant entries. Most of the examples of unadressed issues of regional versions given in this post were merged as well, the same with most of the tectoy reeditions-regionalizations of some games.
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No need for new developer info. As we talked before, it's a regionalization of other games. The credits include the original sega copyright as it happens with other regionalizations translations. Minor alterations on graphics or gameplay doesn' mean we have a new development. We have a lot of examples in several platforms, games with story modes in one region and lacking of it in another, common main character alteration, missing or changed game elements. Adding Tectoy in the distributor list is enough.
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55 minutes ago, LonestarK said:
Except it's not the same scenario. In none of your examples were the games released twice within a single region, once in its unmodified form and then again in a modified form.
we're back https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/gameboy/585988-were-back/media released in europe in three different versions with graphical alterations.
bugs bunny crazy castle 2 https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/gameboy/585650-the-bugs-bunny-crazy-castle-2/boxes released in europe in two diferent versions with the same kind of graphical changes Mickey Mouse and Hugo, the mickey mouse and hugo versions we're available in spain and germany officially because hugo was a popular character of child tv shows. Also Hugo lacks of crediting the original developer KEMCO, exactly the same situation of these brazilian editions, the editor takes all the credit about creation and ownership because in that years the right management was slight at best, it happens also with some movies and anime productions. Do you remember how Carl Mazek adquired and butchered Super Dimensional Fortress Macross, Super Dimensional Cavalry Southern Cross y Genesis Climber Mospeada to create Robotech with heavy alterations in plot and music and taking all the credits as a Harmony Gold production?
ahem.... This is becoming more a feud about ego and some lies about the real alterations of this brazilian re-editions (not fact, in some versions like the monica wonder boy versions only the main character is changed, take a look at videos of gameplay in youtube, same gameplay, same bosses in some cases, the same with sapo xule kungfu or teddy boy geraldinho.) It's false that they are new games using the same engine, are simple regionalization versions created by minor hacking tools.
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On 1/6/2023 at 1:52 PM, alissongamer said:
I'm one of the database's moderators, and since no other moderators have spoken out and most of the time I'm seeing change requests, I'll accept it, so let's separate these versions as individual games for the time being, because I think the arguments make sense .
However, if other moderators speak out and decide that they should not be separated, then we will have to undo everything.
Sou um dos moderadores do database, e como nenhum outro moderador se pronunciou e na maioria das vezes está aparecendo pra mim as solicitações de alteração, eu vou aceitar, então vamos por enquanto separar essas versões como jogos individuais, pois acho que os argumentos fazem sentido.
Porém caso outros moderadores se pronunciem e decidam que não devem ser separados, aí teremos que desfazer tudo.If you follow the way we did with identical scenarios in multiple entries in the past they must be merged.
The database is full of examples of extreme regionalizations like this brazilian versions:
NES: Dragon Power (USA) and Dragon Ball Shenron no Nazo (Japan) Dragon ball (Europe). american version has all main sprites changed to erase dragon ball references
SNES: Ranma ½ Chōnai Gekitōhen (Japan) and Street Combat (USA) Horrible re-spriting in all graphics in USA version.
The Jetson's : Invasion of The Planet Pirates (USA) and Youkai Buster: Ruka no Daibouken, in this case the original game was adapted to japan audiences.
GAMEBOY: We´re Back has 5 different editions, also 3 different in the same region (the argument of they release both of brazilian versions) Released with sprites changes as
• Baby T-Rex (EU)
• Bamse (EU)
• Edd the Duck (EU)
• Agro Soar (AU)MASTER SYSTEM: Hokuto no ken (Japan) and Black Belt (Usa/Europe) no blood or kenshiro and rivals in western releases, all story changed, main character is a generic karate fighter.
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On 1/3/2023 at 7:52 PM, LonestarK said:
And you're ignoring the fact that two different versions were officially released in the same region.
Nope, they are included in the merged entries, with both logos and correct regionalization of both names to avoid overlapping.
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On 1/5/2023 at 11:21 PM, BloodyThorn said:
Just to clarify:
These Sega games should be classified under the same game.
I just want to know as I want to know if I should keep rejecting adding the new game, and rejecting deleting the alternative artwork (brazil) off the OG game.
The way we did with dozens of examples previously in the past years points to keep them merged into one entry. It's not my personal opinion, it's a fact if you check across same scenarios in multiple platforms of the 8-16 era when heavy regionalizations were common.
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6 hours ago, Kjetter said:
"Kung Fu Kid" and "Sapo Xulé: S.O.S. Lagoa Poluída". What happened to "Psycho Fox" / "(..)Os Invasores do Brejo"?
Kung fu kid entry triggers some error when you try to modidy of delete names (it happens with alternates some times, also with images) it's some kind of bug of the database, like the delete bug.
polluted nation is not an official release name, if somebody regionalized it with north-america region, launchbox gives priority to regionalized alternates using your configuration of region order. i've checked entries and at least IN THAT MOMENT are complete, all name data, all regions.
It's not a matter of d*** it's related that your examples are like mine in favour of keeping merged entries, they we're unadressed, when somebody merge them it was aproved. The main point is why if in dozens of equal scenarios people merge games into one entry, we are going to make and excepcion with some brazilian games?
No way. Same scenario, same resolution.
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On 1/8/2023 at 3:17 PM, Kjetter said:
*shrug* Don't see why it's worth getting so riled up about. The data is all there regardless of it being one or two entries. There are clearly mixed opinions on how it should be handled, different interpretations of what constitutes "different games". Most likely whoever is making the changes and most of the people accepting the changes are unaware of any discussion about it, which again just underlines how the rules are less clear and available then they should be, and that the moderation system works poorly. Seems pointless trying to stem the tide by clogging up the queue with confusing add/delete/add/delete cycles.
In any case, the following is a
moderately long novelbrief illustration of how well this "one game, one entry" rule is currently implemented - and these are just the ones I am aware of.In addition to the three Sapo Xule games and the two Monica / Wonderboy games there are three more Brazillian reworked/reskinned games I know of that currently have separate entries:
- Chapolim X Drácula / Ghost House
- Geraldinho / Teddy Boy
- As Aventuras da TV Colosso / Astérix and the Secret Mission
Monica wasn't the only Wonderboy reworking though, there is also Saiyuki World. It saw quite a bit more modification, but I am bringing it up here anyway. Not sure if it's even in the database.
And then unrelated to Brazil there is:
- Ninjabread Man / Anubis II / Myth Makers: Trixie in Toyland / Rock 'n' Roll Adventures
- Super Sidekicks 3: The Next Glory / Neo Geo Cup '98: The Road to the Victory
- Baby T-Rex / We're Back! A Dinosaur's Story / Bamse / Agro Soar / Edd the Duck
- The Bugs Bunny Crazy Castle 2 / Mickey Mouse / Hugo
- Punch-Out!! (Gold Version)/ Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!! / Punch-Out!!
- Fury of the Furries / Pac-in-Time
Crazy Castle 2 and Mickey Mouse are merged, but Hugo still has a separate entry. As for Punch-Out!! - the gold version maintains it's own entry, while the two others are merged.
Then there is the previously mentioned oddity of Resident Evil, not sure why they are separate if games with entirely different story and graphics aren't:
- Resident Evil / Resident Evil: Director's Cut / Resident Evil: Director's Cut: Dual Shock Ver.
- Resident Evil 2 / Resident Evil 2: Dual Shock Ver.
And I suppose an argument could be made that half of Phoenix Games catalogue are just reskins of the same game, since the differences mainly boil down to which jpeg they have superimposed on the slide puzzle and which awful Dingo Animations abomination they have slapped on the disc.
Most part of the games you're talking we're just unadressed cases. Now they have only ONE APROVED ENTRY. Because they are exactly the same, just regional versions with minor graphic changes to please regional audiences/market. I've seen notifications in the modeation cue about gameplay changes, history and etc, and is (forget me if sounds rude) bullshit an a lie. Superprobotector also has their cutscenes changed, they lack of the energy bar of japan version and is more difficult, bayou billy has changes into gameplay ( collision boxes and timing that make the game extremely difficult in western releases) and dragon power in the usa has ALL DRAGONBALL RELATED graphics changed. Nobody is checking for real the gameplay videos of this games to see that essencially are the same scenario i'm describing, just a few changes in main character, same design, same music, in the wonder boy monica games they didn't even change bosses.... teddy boy and geraldinho only have a main character sprite change and go on.... Someone in the database just want to keep separate the brazilian versions by some appreation of that versions in their childhood and may others by out of laziness with this fight they are following the game.
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17 hours ago, Kjetter said:
Monica wasn't the only Wonderboy reworking though, there is also Saiyuki World. It saw quite a bit more modification, but I am bringing it up here anyway. Not sure if it's even in the database.
Saiyūki World has more changes than Bikkuriman World and Mônica no Castelo do Dragão, which only changed the characters and story. The design of the rounds have also been modified, and new story elements were added. The time limit from the original version was removed.
The main character (Book was replaced by Son Gokū, and the game's strongest weapon is the Nyoi-bō.
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16 hours ago, Kjetter said:
- The Bugs Bunny Crazy Castle 2 / Mickey Mouse / Hugo SAME SITUATION SAME GAME, UNADRESSED AND CORRECTED SEE HERE https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/gameboy/585650-the-bugs-bunny-crazy-castle-2/media
All the examples you have given are plain and simple cases that had not been audited. They are the same game as you can see in gamefaqs or mobygames. They are simple reskins of the main character and little else. Same as most Brazilian re-editions of previously released games, only changes the main character, the titles and graphic art of transition screens or the ending NOTHING ELSE, the code and the game are identical.
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5 hours ago, BloodyThorn said:
There certainly needs to be a way to make a ruling, and lock the entries that are being vandalized in a way that goes against them.
But I don't care what we do either way, as long as a consensus is reached.
Same game one entry, it's a database rule. And now the same troll is erasing data from wonder boy iii and others with similar brazilian versions. I'm sick of this.
Legitimate Reasons for Deleting Images
in Contributions
Posted · Edited by Freestate
moved reply out of quote
The problem with this image is tagging it as regional, it does not meet the design of a SNES USA box, it's a strange mixture between Pc Box Ratio and real box. It could be aproved without region. Also the same user is reuploading a false BOX SPINE tagged as USA, box spine is not a fanart category and the real USA SIDE SPINE is available. Tags are for use it correctly not something arbitrary, and Fanart is no exception, it is too common for certain users to use regional tags not precisely to satisfy their own tastes, incorrectly using the world region to favor usa and europe, or without considering that world means the same in all regions, or using it for fanart, or cases like the one you describe. If it doesn't imitate the style and size of a usa box it should be uploaded as regionless. I don't know why so much insistence and argument with this box that has a very uneven design and the poster category has already been created for boxes with this size and proportions. Also the image contains a peyorative word against canadian people, cannucks, seem more like trolling than a real contribution. It was removed several times because the user who uploaded it insists on labeling it as something it is not.
The database has its limitations in terms of categories where media can be placed, and we do not have categories for all types of art. We always try to reconcile the desire of some users to upload their creations with the database being an orderly place and the categories being used correctly, but many users insist on uploading their creations anywhere and in any way, generating totally unpredictable downloads that then require a lot of manual screening work. This can be done by uploading fan media to categories not created for it, incorrectly regionalizing or multiplying the designs and the type of format of what they upload to infinity. No, it is not sustainable to accept everything uncritically if it does not meet minimum quality standards, both in form and in terms of respecting the labeling. If you look at other SNES entries, this is the general rule that has been applied, if its design is not congruent with the region it refers to, it is deleted or kept as regionless, in the same way that we avoid labeling as official what is not in the main categories.