Library Brainstorming

[Vinicius256]

SentaiBrad said I was planning on donating several times when I can. So the first $10 I donate next Thursday will be on your behalf.

That's very nice of you, thanks! I'll try to help advertising or spreading the word about LaunchBox everytime I can =D

[Neon32]

SentaiBrad said

Jason Carr said I've been thinking a bit. This is a pretty controversial topic I realize...but sooner or later, I'm gonna hit a wall with the project financially and probably eventually time-wise too. There's a million things to do yet with the project beyond what we already have, and I think it has HUGE potential. The issue is, the bigger it gets, the more money it will cost to maintain (web hosting, etc.) and the more time it will take to maintain and improve. I'm currently considering a freeware/premium model of sorts, where all of the current functionality is available for free, but you have the option to upgrade to an improved version with special features (like theming, more advanced customization options, etc.). I'm considering this mostly because I want this to be a long-term project, and I don't want to have to limit its features or not make it as good as it could be because I'm scrounging for funds. I also have to admit I would *love* for this project to be a full time focus (as opposed to the side project that it is currently). To be clear, anyone who's donated already would have the upgraded version free for life. I also hate DRM, so that would absolutely *NOT* be included, and the cost of the upgrade would be extremely inexpensive (probably $5 or $10 or similar). If everyone hates this idea, I won't go through with it. Straight up. I want this to be at least somewhat a community decision, as obviously it affects us all. So, to those of us on this thread, let me ask you a few questions: - Would you find it offensive or would it leave a bad taste in your mouth if LaunchBox went to this free/premium model? - Assuming you hadn't already donated, would you pay to upgrade to the better version with advanced features? - Specifically, what would you want to avoid doing if we did move to a free/premium model? Thanks everyone; please do speak up as we need as many people's feedback on this as possible. Obviously this isn't an easy decision to make (and trust me, it's not one that I had planned on making). Let me know. Thanks, Jason

I am torn on this. I agree with you, you want it to be full time. You would probably like to hire or recruit some extra help. But on the other hand, if the user feels like they have to pay for the program to any useful, then they just wont use it. They'll stick to current methods or find alternatives. I am not saying I am against it, I am saying the message needs to be clear that the program works just fine, and the same features that you've been used to since launch. Also make it clear you're not forgetting the general user base who doesn't want to donate, doesn't think its worth it, or simply can't - which is the camp I fall in to saddly. I want to donate, and will when I can, but can't just donate when ever. There needs to be a clear structure for the program. Usability, basic scraper functionality and maybe some other Features we can work out will be free. Always free, because if not then what is the point? But if you want some more advanced scrapper options, themeing support, maybe some forum incentives and priority support with the program, you can donate some money.

i too agree on this. but you must know that "the community decision " from here will be the view of just 10/20 people so for getting feedback on this from all the LB users you should use some other methods like a one time poll when the users open LB. also, not all are capable of donating even thought they would like using LB so i suggest that before releasing a premium version you should release an equivalent free version which would be stable like the Premium one but would have less features like Themes ,blocked Popup etc. and you could also release updates for the free version just like the Premium but with less features.

[Jason Carr]

bd00 said Yeah your right, not being able to disable it would be too much, forget I suggested that. I hate ads in apps too, but I do understand why devs need to do it. What we are talking about here, I don't really consider it as an ad but more of a notice. Seeing notices in free apps saying "If you like this app, please donate..." never bothers me like true ads do. I also think you should start encouraging your users to start spreading the word about LaunchBox, but that's just my opinion. I also think anyone who helps you in beta testing, should get a license too.

Good point about encouraging users to spread the word. I have zero marketing experience. Anyone have any ideas as to how best to encourage people to spread the word? Agreed about the licenses for beta testers; yes, that was the plan but obviously I do have to draw the line at some point. Everyone on this thread currently will get a license but I'd rather not hand out licenses to everyone who puts in a minimal amount of effort beta testing (otherwise we'll have people just hopping on to do the least amount of effort to grab a license). Significant contributors like all of you obviously are a different story.

[SentaiBrad]

Conehead said

SentaiBrad said

Jason Carr said I've been thinking a bit. This is a pretty controversial topic I realize...but sooner or later, I'm gonna hit a wall with the project financially and probably eventually time-wise too. There's a million things to do yet with the project beyond what we already have, and I think it has HUGE potential. The issue is, the bigger it gets, the more money it will cost to maintain (web hosting, etc.) and the more time it will take to maintain and improve. I'm currently considering a freeware/premium model of sorts, where all of the current functionality is available for free, but you have the option to upgrade to an improved version with special features (like theming, more advanced customization options, etc.). I'm considering this mostly because I want this to be a long-term project, and I don't want to have to limit its features or not make it as good as it could be because I'm scrounging for funds. I also have to admit I would *love* for this project to be a full time focus (as opposed to the side project that it is currently). To be clear, anyone who's donated already would have the upgraded version free for life. I also hate DRM, so that would absolutely *NOT* be included, and the cost of the upgrade would be extremely inexpensive (probably $5 or $10 or similar). If everyone hates this idea, I won't go through with it. Straight up. I want this to be at least somewhat a community decision, as obviously it affects us all. So, to those of us on this thread, let me ask you a few questions: - Would you find it offensive or would it leave a bad taste in your mouth if LaunchBox went to this free/premium model? - Assuming you hadn't already donated, would you pay to upgrade to the better version with advanced features? - Specifically, what would you want to avoid doing if we did move to a free/premium model? Thanks everyone; please do speak up as we need as many people's feedback on this as possible. Obviously this isn't an easy decision to make (and trust me, it's not one that I had planned on making). Let me know. Thanks, Jason

I am torn on this. I agree with you, you want it to be full time. You would probably like to hire or recruit some extra help. But on the other hand, if the user feels like they have to pay for the program to any useful, then they just wont use it. They'll stick to current methods or find alternatives. I am not saying I am against it, I am saying the message needs to be clear that the program works just fine, and the same features that you've been used to since launch. Also make it clear you're not forgetting the general user base who doesn't want to donate, doesn't think its worth it, or simply can't - which is the camp I fall in to saddly. I want to donate, and will when I can, but can't just donate when ever. There needs to be a clear structure for the program. Usability, basic scraper functionality and maybe some other Features we can work out will be free. Always free, because if not then what is the point? But if you want some more advanced scrapper options, themeing support, maybe some forum incentives and priority support with the program, you can donate some money.

i too agree on this. but you must know that "the community decision " from here will be the view of just 10/20 people so for getting feedback on this from all the LB users you should use some other methods like a one time poll when the users open LB. also, not all are capable of donating even thought they would like using LB so i suggest that before releasing a premium version you should release an equivalent free version which would be stable like the Premium one but would have less features like Themes ,blocked Popup etc. and you could also release updates for the free version just like the Premium but with less features.

Well the plan was always to have a defined set of Premium Features. Jason and I talked about being very careful to not alienate the group his is unwilling or more importantly unable while still trying to make sure Premium is a good value. Donating helps Jason and should hopefully enhance your experience with the program. Trying to not make the previous version feel like an intentionally incomplete version. Also, I think the plan was to also still develop both concurrently, its just Premium has the added features which at this point are Themeing and some Power User functions, maybe even a little UI tweaking. LB will always be a free to use program at its core, with the same functionality you get now and a little bit more where it makes sense.

[Jason Carr]

Conehead said i too agree on this. but you must know that "the community decision " from here will be the view of just 10/20 people so for getting feedback on this from all the LB users you should use some other methods like a one time poll when the users open LB. also, not all are capable of donating even thought they would like using LB so i suggest that before releasing a premium version you should release an equivalent free version which would be stable like the Premium one but would have less features like Themes ,blocked Popup etc. and you could also release updates for the free version just like the Premium but with less features.

Thanks, Conehead. Yes, I can see the advantage of polling the entire community, but my current thoughts are that I'm more interested in the feedback of people who are well-informed, vocal, and involved in the project more than those who really don't know what's going on. Obviously, users who don't understand the issues with not going premium or haven't had the experience to appreciate the ongoing development of LaunchBox are likely to all vote "no, I do not want a premium version" without much thought at all. Therefore, I'd rather work on getting users more involved so they can make more informed decisions from that front instead of just randomly throwing it out there. And yes, we'll certainly keep updating both versions, regardless. The intent will certainly not be "upgrade to premium to keep up to date". It will be "update to premium for these advanced features".

[SentaiBrad]

Jason Carr said

bd00 said Yeah your right, not being able to disable it would be too much, forget I suggested that. I hate ads in apps too, but I do understand why devs need to do it. What we are talking about here, I don't really consider it as an ad but more of a notice. Seeing notices in free apps saying "If you like this app, please donate..." never bothers me like true ads do. I also think you should start encouraging your users to start spreading the word about LaunchBox, but that's just my opinion. I also think anyone who helps you in beta testing, should get a license too.

Good point about encouraging users to spread the word. I have zero marketing experience. Anyone have any ideas as to how best to encourage people to spread the word? Agreed about the licenses for beta testers; yes, that was the plan but obviously I do have to draw the line at some point. Everyone on this thread currently will get a license but I'd rather not hand out licenses to everyone who puts in a minimal amount of effort beta testing (otherwise we'll have people just hopping on to do the least amount of effort to grab a license). Significant contributors like all of you obviously are a different story.

As far as marketing. You need to target specific groups. Target Lets Players, Completionists, Collectors. Go to Nerd sites, hell even some rom sites. Emuparadise is a great place, GBATemp (though not a rom site) is a great place to go. Twitter is too. Trying to have an out reach there. Not to mention various Emulator sites. It is literally compatible with every emulator. Though I think a Premium feature could be it being pre-shiped and pre-configured with the more popular emulators, obviously permitting permission or the respective licenses. So all you need to do, is provide the games and hit import, everything else is taken care for you. Emulators cant really be preconfigured because of differences in hardware for the most part, but LB its self could have them preset then on import you just specify an existing emulator or your own.

[Vinicius256]

Hey Jason, do you have by any chance a PNG file of the LaunchBox logo? I want to try to make a video ad of sorts for LaunchBox using Vegas, it would be fun to do and could help me learn video editing better.

[bd00]

Jason Carr said Good point about encouraging users to spread the word. I have zero marketing experience. Anyone have any ideas as to how best to encourage people to spread the word? Agreed about the licenses for beta testers; yes, that was the plan but obviously I do have to draw the line at some point. Everyone on this thread currently will get a license but I'd rather not hand out licenses to everyone who puts in a minimal amount of effort beta testing (otherwise we'll have people just hopping on to do the least amount of effort to grab a license). Significant contributors like all of you obviously are a different story.

Like I mentioned earlier, give them some incentive. Free premium licenses for spreading the word. They must be able to prove what they have done and you must deem it enough. You are right about the beta testing, you must also be cautious about offering the free licenses to anyone who asks, providing they have a good reason why they can't. No offense to people who really cannot afford it, but anyone can just say they can't at the end of the day. That's even easier than being a fake beta tester. If users can't afford it, let them earn it. There is no shame in asking them to do that, it is fair. You scratch my back and I will scratch yours. This takes me back to the first paragraph of this post. As for how, Brad just mentioned some great examples, but you don't need to just focus on nerd sites, if you're going to do that there is no point in making LB simple. Take a blanket approach, "anywhere you can" just get LB out there. Ask your users to post in forums, write blogs, make youtube videos, etc. etc. All the usual stuff, facebook, twitter, google+, etc. etc. Reviews, recommendations, anything. Anywhere. Spread LB around torrent/p2p/file sharing/usenet/etc (with no pre-made libraries of course). Jason, you should approach some of the more well known sites that rank high in Google. Send emails, ask them to review LB and share your future plans with them. They are always looking for new things to write about, you might find it easier than you expect. Literally anything you can think of, is better than nothing at all.

Vinicius256 said Hey Jason, do you have by any chance a PNG file of the LaunchBox logo? I want to try to make a video ad of sorts for LaunchBox using Vegas, it would be fun to do and could help me learn video editing better.

Here, I extracted it from the icon for you. Could only get it at 128x128 pixels, if you need bigger you will have to wait for Jason.

[Jason Carr]

Thanks, bd for helping Vinicius. Vinicius, I'm excited to see the video. The 128x128 image is actually the largest I have anyways. Brad, great ideas, as usual. I definitely do need to work on making emulation much easier, including possibly even including some emulators with LaunchBox. For that I'll need some help identifying what emulators to possibly include (identifying the emulators that are the best for their platform and have licenses that would allow them to be included). I'll probably keep this in the free version though because anything that makes things easier to use I'm thinking would be better off free. bd, I definitely like the concept of getting users to advertise/share LaunchBox, for sure. That's huge. Great idea. We'll take that approach going forward.

[Neon32]

Jason Carr said Good point about encouraging users to spread the word. I have zero marketing experience. Anyone have any ideas as to how best to encourage people to spread the word? Agreed about the licenses for beta testers; yes, that was the plan but obviously I do have to draw the line at some point. Everyone on this thread currently will get a license but I'd rather not hand out licenses to everyone who puts in a minimal amount of effort beta testing (otherwise we'll have people just hopping on to do the least amount of effort to grab a license). Significant contributors like all of you obviously are a different story.

yay cant wait for Beta program and also this should get many of the users motivated for Beta testing.

Jason Carr said Thanks, Conehead. Yes, I can see the advantage of polling the entire community, but my current thoughts are that I'm more interested in the feedback of people who are well-informed, vocal, and involved in the project more than those who really don't know what's going on. Obviously, users who don't understand the issues with not going premium or haven't had the experience to appreciate the ongoing development of LaunchBox are likely to all vote "no, I do not want a premium version" without much thought at all. Therefore, I'd rather work on getting users more involved so they can make more informed decisions from that front instead of just randomly throwing it out there. And yes, we'll certainly keep updating both versions, regardless. The intent will certainly not be "upgrade to premium to keep up to date". It will be "update to premium for these advanced features".

thanks i really appreciate this and im sure that people would love your decision .

[bd00]

Vinicius256 said Hey Jason, do you have by any chance a PNG file of the LaunchBox logo? I want to try to make a video ad of sorts for LaunchBox using Vegas, it would be fun to do and could help me learn video editing better.

Jason Carr said Thanks, bd for helping Vinicius. Vinicius, I'm excited to see the video. The 128x128 image is actually the largest I have anyways.

OK, here is a larger version of the LaunchBox logo since Jason does not have any other available sizes. Now it is by no means perfect, but it should suffice for now. I did not re-draw this, this is was an automatic trace and vector conversion. I removed some odd artefacts and straightened some lines and added the drop shadow that got lost in translation. Like I said, it is not perfect, you have lost your gradients and it could do with some more work to tidy it up. I have attached the vector files if anyone wants to spend some more time on it.

[bd00]

Hmm, OK. I can't upload eps or svg files and i get an error when trying to upload a zip, saying I have exceeded the max file size limit, 78kb If anyone want's them just let me know and I will host them elsewhere.

---

*EDIT*
HaHa! Fixed it! I just removed the png logo from the zip file. 4kb now

[Vinicius256]

That .png will do! Thanks bd!

[nmc]

I have no problem on paying for premium usage, we all pay to have premium features in some online games. When you release a product into the market it has to be inovating and new, don´t hit the product to a specific target you have to show it to everyone, we are online, a person may not need it but for sure he might knows someone who does. Like Sentaibrad said Launchbox as to hit all the emu websites, Steam, Origin, Uplay all the battlelogs there are outhere, Neowin, Zdnet all the tech news informers and don´t forget youtube. Just don´t turn Launchbox into a arcade machine builder like Hiperspyn, there are a ton out there, keep it simple, different and inovating. Just a thought into the future, it would be nice for launchbox to have a games database ( ftp access to be included into the premium features ) i know it as to be built from scratch but it can be very promising.

[Jason Carr]

Wow, nice job bd. Thanks for that. That'll prove helpful for the future indeed. nmc, all good points, yes. I can always use the help advertising on the various sites because I'm currently putting most of my time towards development and forum discussions. I agree on the database as well. An API of sorts would definitely be a good thing. It's a ways off, but I am thinking along those lines.

[pogowolf]

Good to see nice topics of conversation happening here! though there's a lot of information to read before knowing if you're just reposting something.. anyway... my thoughts about the library is that perhaps the problem is being looked at from the wrong angle. Instead of looking at it like 'what media can this Util play", look at it from the angle of "ok, this is the media, what can play it" stance. I know, for me, I could care less WHICH emulator plays what.. as long as it can play it quickly and within a tolerance for bugs. Since such a library would pretty much be a database of meta data with a pointer to the media. So NES games would be associated with the EMU's that play them.. perhaps with a crowd sourcing widget to know if X emu is horrible for this game, but Y is perfect. this would also separate the Media Players (media.. roms.. pics.. isos.. music.. movies.. what ever) from the media itself.. what I really think is needed is a new ROM file format, I purpose calling it the .CART format. A container file that contains not only the image but also its meta data. Then, you'd only need to hit the GamesDB.com ONCE for the meta data and now that game has all the information association with with.. like Name, console, release date, etc.. the meta data could then be extracted and dumped into the database making importing a HECK of a lot faster.. and I've not had my coffee or mt. dew this morning, so if non of this makes any sense.. I'm going to blame it on the lack of caffeine.

[SentaiBrad]

pogowolf said Good to see nice topics of conversation happening here! though there's a lot of information to read before knowing if you're just reposting something.. anyway... my thoughts about the library is that perhaps the problem is being looked at from the wrong angle. Instead of looking at it like 'what media can this Util play", look at it from the angle of "ok, this is the media, what can play it" stance. I know, for me, I could care less WHICH emulator plays what.. as long as it can play it quickly and within a tolerance for bugs. Since such a library would pretty much be a database of meta data with a pointer to the media. So NES games would be associated with the EMU's that play them.. perhaps with a crowd sourcing widget to know if X emu is horrible for this game, but Y is perfect. this would also separate the Media Players (media.. roms.. pics.. isos.. music.. movies.. what ever) from the media itself.. what I really think is needed is a new ROM file format, I purpose calling it the .CART format. A container file that contains not only the image but also its meta data. Then, you'd only need to hit the GamesDB.com ONCE for the meta data and now that game has all the information association with with.. like Name, console, release date, etc.. the meta data could then be extracted and dumped into the database making importing a HECK of a lot faster.. and I've not had my coffee or mt. dew this morning, so if non of this makes any sense.. I'm going to blame it on the lack of caffeine.

The only problem I see with changing file extensions is then Emulators issues. The fact still stands, we rely on other programs. Adding in layers of anything could have untold issues. It will also make the amount of user data a person has get to be out of hand and you are being forced to use LB so that the container is of any use. Also, after my last scan of TheGamesDB and going through a lot of my games manually, I don't have to do that again. When a new version comes out I just replace the exe and it automatically grabs all the data. If I need to change directories I put the new exe in the new directory, run LB, then place my old XML and Images folder in to the new structure. As long as the XML file corresponds correctly to the right images folder it will be all fine. That is because each game is generated a code based on hardware. Naming conventions can vary from person to person, so if each image set was tied to a specific name, once you edit that name it should break the link. Whereas its a generated code for each entry in the program so any value can change but you can't change the code it was assigned already. We also talked about playing around with an official list of Emulators. We would love to distribute emulators with LB for consoles with it already pre-setup so all you have to do is plug in the roms. Only problem is I can already imagine most Licenses and EULAs will prevent this from happening. The next step would to still pre configure all of the emulators, but each person has to plug in their own roms and the emulators, which we can link to from inside LB.

[pogowolf]

SentaiBrad said The only problem I see with changing file extensions is then Emulators issues. The fact still stands, we rely on other programs. Adding in layers of anything could have untold issues. It will also make the amount of user data a person has get to be out of hand and you are being forced to use LB so that the container is of any use. Also, after my last scan of TheGamesDB and going through a lot of my games manually, I don't have to do that again. When a new version comes out I just replace the exe and it automatically grabs all the data. If I need to change directories I put the new exe in the new directory, run LB, then place my old XML and Images folder in to the new structure. As long as the XML file corresponds correctly to the right images folder it will be all fine. That is because each game is generated a code based on hardware. Naming conventions can vary from person to person, so if each image set was tied to a specific name, once you edit that name it should break the link. Whereas its a generated code for each entry in the program so any value can change but you can't change the code it was assigned already. We also talked about playing around with an official list of Emulators. We would love to distribute emulators with LB for consoles with it already pre-setup so all you have to do is plug in the roms. Only problem is I can already imagine most Licenses and EULAs will prevent this from happening. The next step would to still pre configure all of the emulators, but each person has to plug in their own roms and the emulators, which we can link to from inside LB.

I don't really see it as a problem. Perhaps just a bit of PITA to set up.. LOL First, forget the extension. Look at the header of the file during import to verify the format. This way you KNOW it's a .nes vs a .fds ROM, etc. though, I'm not sure there really needs to be multiple formats.. so perhaps converting .fds to .nes would make things easier in the long run... the data a person needs to see really depends on the person and their filter preferences. We're as I like the auto-detect of the games from the gamesdb.com some of the information is lacking. Like there is a difference between UT3 and UT3:Black Editon, but Gamesdb.com doesn't make that distention. as for the container, true.. but then again, it's one of those things that as soon as other developers see that all the meta data for a game is located with that game.. it could make programming a lot easier. even better if an API was provided for the format to allow for auto updates of the information, etc. and would make changing aa folder structure (I personally, don't want my games under the LB folder, I want them in their own place. like E:/Games/Roms/Nintendo/Nes having a container that already has all your game information makes it as easy as coping a file. It would also remove the problem of the naming convention... the CART format would set it. Yes, having a built in set of EMU's would be pretty sweet. Though I believe you can embed MAME, MESS, and LibRetro.. which would take care 90% of the emulators, and since DosBox and ScrummVM are already there.. LB would be a fully featured launcher. at that point you could tack in like the VLC to add support for movies. Though, even if, the EULA for the software doesn't allow it to be embedded.. then support it anyway in the backend and provide a link to download it from the website. No reason why the download/install process couldn't be automated and it works around the whole embedding of the players. What I see as a need would be to separate the media manager from the launcher.. perhaps even separate out the configuration. If the media player software (EMus, VLC, etc) had there own configuration in let's say an XML file, that XML file could be placed on Google Drive, OneDrive, Dropbox.. what ever... updates to the configuration then wouldn't require a new build of LB.

[SentaiBrad]

pogowolf said

SentaiBrad said The only problem I see with changing file extensions is then Emulators issues. The fact still stands, we rely on other programs. Adding in layers of anything could have untold issues. It will also make the amount of user data a person has get to be out of hand and you are being forced to use LB so that the container is of any use. Also, after my last scan of TheGamesDB and going through a lot of my games manually, I don't have to do that again. When a new version comes out I just replace the exe and it automatically grabs all the data. If I need to change directories I put the new exe in the new directory, run LB, then place my old XML and Images folder in to the new structure. As long as the XML file corresponds correctly to the right images folder it will be all fine. That is because each game is generated a code based on hardware. Naming conventions can vary from person to person, so if each image set was tied to a specific name, once you edit that name it should break the link. Whereas its a generated code for each entry in the program so any value can change but you can't change the code it was assigned already. We also talked about playing around with an official list of Emulators. We would love to distribute emulators with LB for consoles with it already pre-setup so all you have to do is plug in the roms. Only problem is I can already imagine most Licenses and EULAs will prevent this from happening. The next step would to still pre configure all of the emulators, but each person has to plug in their own roms and the emulators, which we can link to from inside LB.

I don't really see it as a problem. Perhaps just a bit of PITA to set up.. LOL First, forget the extension. Look at the header of the file during import to verify the format. This way you KNOW it's a .nes vs a .fds ROM, etc. though, I'm not sure there really needs to be multiple formats.. so perhaps converting .fds to .nes would make things easier in the long run... the data a person needs to see really depends on the person and their filter preferences. We're as I like the auto-detect of the games from the gamesdb.com some of the information is lacking. Like there is a difference between UT3 and UT3:Black Editon, but Gamesdb.com doesn't make that distention. as for the container, true.. but then again, it's one of those things that as soon as other developers see that all the meta data for a game is located with that game.. it could make programming a lot easier. even better if an API was provided for the format to allow for auto updates of the information, etc. and would make changing aa folder structure (I personally, don't want my games under the LB folder, I want them in their own place. like E:/Games/Roms/Nintendo/Nes having a container that already has all your game information makes it as easy as coping a file. It would also remove the problem of the naming convention... the CART format would set it. Yes, having a built in set of EMU's would be pretty sweet. Though I believe you can embed MAME, MESS, and LibRetro.. which would take care 90% of the emulators, and since DosBox and ScrummVM are already there.. LB would be a fully featured launcher. at that point you could tack in like the VLC to add support for movies. Though, even if, the EULA for the software doesn't allow it to be embedded.. then support it anyway in the backend and provide a link to download it from the website. No reason why the download/install process couldn't be automated and it works around the whole embedding of the players. What I see as a need would be to separate the media manager from the launcher.. perhaps even separate out the configuration. If the media player software (EMus, VLC, etc) had there own configuration in let's say an XML file, that XML file could be placed on Google Drive, OneDrive, Dropbox.. what ever... updates to the configuration then wouldn't require a new build of LB.

Most of the portability you are talking about already exists though, its just not in a container or on OneDrive etc. You can already do all of that as is. The XML is holding the data of each rom like Publisher and its path on your system etc, and the images folder holds the images. The game is assigned an ID based on Hardware and setup, its given an entry in the XML then everything is assigned to that. Where as if it was based on names, that could be easily broken. It is the same result if its a container. If its based on ID we already have that system setup and if its based on name that can be easily broken and cause some headaches. The point of the program is to hopefully be stupid simple. If the power users like us want to mess around with it we can and if the general end user wants to just plug-in the roms and go they're also covered. Also, MESS is literally a mess. I tried it several times and did not like it at all. MAME barely gets there with a Frontend. The MESS cores are also not up to par from what I remember. A lot of emulators still being updated are generally better. Also, if we include emulators that have multiple systems tied to it, if someone wants to use another emulator I could see it being a hard time trying to change over the small portions, but with the UI rewite that would hopefully be a thing of the past. It only comes down to the right start up commands. I just personally don't like them.

[pogowolf]

SentaiBrad said Most of the portability you are talking about already exists though, its just not in a container or on OneDrive etc. You can already do all of that as is. The XML is holding the data of each rom like Publisher and its path on your system etc, and the images folder holds the images. The game is assigned an ID based on Hardware and setup, its given an entry in the XML then everything is assigned to that. Where as if it was based on names, that could be easily broken. It is the same result if its a container. If its based on ID we already have that system setup and if its based on name that can be easily broken and cause some headaches. The point of the program is to hopefully be stupid simple. If the power users like us want to mess around with it we can and if the general end user wants to just plug-in the roms and go they're also covered. Also, MESS is literally a mess. I tried it several times and did not like it at all. MAME barely gets there with a Frontend. The MESS cores are also not up to par from what I remember. A lot of emulators still being updated are generally better. Also, if we include emulators that have multiple systems tied to it, if someone wants to use another emulator I could see it being a hard time trying to change over the small portions, but with the UI rewite that would hopefully be a thing of the past. It only comes down to the right start up commands. I just personally don't like them.

Yes, but you still need to download the information.. if there was a standard format, all of that would go away and you wouldn't need to rapid-fire a request the GamesDB.com for the data if you change where your roms are stored, kinda thing nor would you need worry about a name change or ID change breaking anything. All the metadata is right there. the only thing to worry about would be connecting to a database every so often to update meta data. I totally agree that a front end should be just simple stupid. Most people do want to just open, pick a game, and play it. that's why my thoughts are around how to manage the information and data.. LB's front end is pretty darn good, which is why I'm here. hehe However, there are some things that could be modified to make that process even simpler. My current biggest issue is the image cache and even perhaps the whole XML file. I need to look at the output to really see what's going on.. but from what you are talking about, it sounds like LB pretty much much dumps all the meta data into one XML file and processes from there. For small collections this is fine, for large.. a DB is needed. The few times I've used MESS I didn't like it either, however, I know it's been unified and there have been more updates. though, yes, at last check MESS isn't up to par with a lot of other emulators, at least it's a starting point for making LB "stupid simple" MAME works pretty well if you know how to set it up.. which is a total PITA with out a front end.. but programmatically creating INI file that has all the information needed and point it to the mame.exe is nothing. However, ROM management isn't (and I don't think ever will be) simple. Hince the need for standards and the thought to separate the management from the launcher.