SSF with Reshade

[Lordmonkus]

I have been messing around a little with Reshade and SSF to get somewhat of a CRT look into it since SSF has no CRT effects at all and I personally cannot stand the raw pixel look. Anyone else been toying with this at all ? Here's a screenshot of what I have so far but I am sure it can be done better. I just mashed at the settings until I got something resembling acceptable for now.

[Drybonz]

I have just been hoping that new Saturn emulator would show some progress. :)

[Lordmonkus]

Yeah indeed, hopefully the Mednafen Saturn emulator comes along sooner rather than later and is implemented into Retroarch because with those shaders it will look amazing. But we all know that emulation development is very often anything but fast so it could be a while until we see that so for now this is the best were gonna have.

[8Phantasm]

While I don't use SSF because of the atrocious input lag... I went to make a friend a ReShade CRT preset for it and it just gives a black screen. Which version SSF and ReShade are you using?

[Lordmonkus]

Oh jeez I can't remember the exact version I am using but I don't think that itself matters as much as having the right version for your operating system, i'm using Windows 8.1. The other thing with ReShade is when you set it up for games and programs is you have to use the right video api (Direct X / Open GL). How bad is your input lag ? I don't have much if any input lag with SSF, it's no better or worse than any other system. Then again we are talking about Saturn emulation here so emulation quality can vary greatly from game to game on the different emulators available.

[Zombeaver]

Atrocious input lag? I think you might have some wrong settings or something... I haven't experienced that at all. In fairness, that's pretty easy to do considering the convoluted mess that is SSF's settings. You may want to post your version and settings here.

[8Phantasm]

Most people know about the input lag in SSF. Maybe try testing the movement in something like DonPachi in SSF and then compare it to MAME. Of course there are some that don't notice it for various reasons. I am using the latest version. I don't need to post settings because you can't fix the input lag unless maybe that developer open-sources SSF and the core gets imported into RetroArch. I'm not using Vsync and I didn't change a bunch of settings in the emulator, if that's what you are thinking. Anyhow, I'm not looking to fix the input lag because I don't believe that it's possible. I'm looking to get ReShade working for a friend.

[Lordmonkus]

I don't have DonPachi for the Saturn but I do have Darius Gaiden which is one of my favourite shooters and it really is barely noticeable even compared to the Mame version. But like I said it could very well be a game to game thing since Saturn emulation is in the state that it is in. SSF is the best that we have with Yabause and Mess being behind it.

[8Phantasm]

Oh yeah, no doubt I agree it's the best we got. I'm just really picky with input lag (amongst other things). I've heard Mednafen is workin on Saturn so I am excited waiting for that. Hopefully it blows SSF and Yaba out of the water. I didn't even consider Mess, and I haven't "messed" with it either. :p

[Lordmonkus]

Yeah the Mednafen work is exciting for sure given their track record for quality. Mess is ok but from my testing it's hit and miss with games that work and don't work. SSF has the best compatibility of the bunch so far.

[Zombeaver]

8Phantasm said I'm not using Vsync and I didn't change a bunch of settings in the emulator, if that's what you are thinking.

Actually, I was thinking that not changing a "bunch of settings" was probably precisely your issue. In my experience, none of the versions run all that great with default or near default settings. SSF requires more tweaking than just about any other emulator I've ever used in order to be tolerable. But hey, if you don't want to take the time to try to fix your issue, nobody's forcing you. It's far and away the best (I would argue only, really) option currently for Saturn emulation so I'm not sure why you wouldn't, but that's your call. I'm not saying that that there's zero input lag, of course, just that it's not significantly worse than any other emulator with some tweaking. VDP2 RAM Write Timing, for example, yields a noticeable improvement in input lag and I'm almost positive that's turned off by default. With that turned on and vsync off I was just playing Metal Black without any issues. I then switched over to Retroarch Mame and played it there, with Hard GPU sync on and a frame delay of 6. There's barely any perceptible difference, if at all. Going along with what lordmonkus said, there could be game by game instances where the disparity is greater, but I think tossing SSF aside with a blanket statement of "It has atrocious input lag. Unusuable." is cutting yourself off from access to some great games unnecessarily.

[8Phantasm]

Zombeaver said

8Phantasm said I'm not using Vsync and I didn't change a bunch of settings in the emulator, if that's what you are thinking.

Actually, I was thinking that not changing a "bunch of settings" was probably precisely your issue. In my experience, none of the versions run all that great with default or near default settings. SSF requires more tweaking than just about any other emulator I've ever used in order to be tolerable. But hey, if you don't want to take the time to try to fix your issue, nobody's forcing you. It's far and away the best (I would argue only, really) option currently for Saturn emulation so I'm not sure why you wouldn't, but that's your call. I'm not saying that that there's zero input lag, of course, just that it's not significantly worse than any other emulator with some tweaking. VDP2 RAM Write Timing, for example, yields a noticeable improvement in input lag and I'm almost positive that's turned off by default. With that turned on and vsync off I was just playing Metal Black without any issues. I then switched over to Retroarch Mame and played it there, with Hard GPU sync on and a frame delay of 6. There's barely any perceptible difference, if at all. Going along with what lordmonkus said, there could be game by game instances where the disparity is greater, but I think tossing SSF aside with a blanket statement of "It has atrocious input lag. Unusuable." is cutting yourself off from access to some great games unnecessarily.

Well, I had Vsync off and VDP2 RAM Write Timing on but DonPachi was unplayable for me. Guardian Heroes had too much of a delay also, but I don't have a real Saturn at the moment to compare it to. If you have the best settings for SSF, I'm open to try them. I still have it installed to test games out. The input lag could be worse and varied on a per-game basis, I don't really know. I just know what I tried was not good enough for me so far. If you try researching the input lag to fix it, everyone just says it's too bad in SSF, and all I found was the vsync off and VDP2 recommendation. I'm not looking to just play something just because it's the best we got, though. I like using real hardware in cases where the emulation is not up to par. Input lag is a big deal to me, but I'll try some more games this week. I didn't like the look of either DonPachi games anyway compared to arcade so those don't even matter. @lordmunkus: Can you tell me how you got ReShade working? I get a black screen with the emulation running behind it when using latest versions of both.

[Lordmonkus]

@Zombeaver What VDP2 Ram timing are you using ? Mine is checked on and Buffer Size is 24. I just went into the EZ Settings tab and clicked the Full Compatibility and left it at that other than turning V-Sync off. @8Phantasm It's been over a month since I set up Reshade with SSF so the exact details I forget but all I did was follow Simply Austins video on it and followed his instructions. Here's the video I watched for it, it's mainly on setting up the Playstation Emulator, Xebra but he has a section in the video for Reshade. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq1ktz79ve4

[8Phantasm]

Oh ok. Well, I'm quite familiar with ReShade and SweetFX... but if you're using the 012 Beta R4 release of SSF it should be working. Maybe it only works with the R3 version if you are using that? I have the same settings as you, vsync off, vdp2 24mb, full compatibility.

[Lordmonkus]

I am using the same version of SSF, 012 Beta R4. I really wish I could tell you the exact version of ReShade I used. ReShade can be a bit of a finicky pig to get working depending on your version of Windows. I have used a couple of times in other games like Elite Dangerous with mixed results and had to try a couple of different versions before getting the right one for my computer. Just to add to the DonPachi and Saturn discussion I did get a copy of the game and it plays just fine. Though it doesn't play as good as the arcade version in Mame it was extremely playable and while I wouldn't say there was any real noticeable input lag there was definitely a bit of sluggishness in the controls compared to the arcade Mame version. I call it sluggishness over input lag because the ship moved when I pressed a direction but the movement itself felt slow compared to the arcade (not the time it took to actually move). This may be the port itself and I have no idea since I no longer own a real Saturn or CRT to test it out on. There was also some sound issues but again I do not know if that was a case of sound issues in the port or in the emulation. I also did try loading the Saturn version using Mess but I got to the red hexagon screen just as the game play was about to start and it froze up.

[Zombeaver]

8Phantasm said Well, I had Vsync off and VDP2 RAM Write Timing on but DonPachi was unplayable for me.

Those are definitely the big two for input lag. I've never actually tried any version of DonPachi other than arcade. It's possible there's some hiccup with it, in particular, I'm not sure. Anything else you've tried (other than that and Guardian Heroes)? I've got Blast Wind, Hyper Duel, Metal Black, Radiant Silvergun, Steam-Heart's, and Thunder Force V setup with SSF, when it comes to shmups. Thunder Force V does have noticeable input lag that I've been unable to get rid of since that game doesn't seem to like VDP2 RAM Write Timing. I opt for the PSX version of that one. The others seem to be pretty good though. Blast Wind: Moderate Lag; Playable Hyper Duel: Moderate Lag; Playable; you're probably better off with the arcade version for it though Metal Black: Low Lag; Playable Radiant Silvergun: Low Lag; Playable Steam-Heart's: Low Lag; Playable Thunder Force V: High Lag; Unplayable Obviously like you said, the degree to which this is noticeable varies from person to person but I think I'm fairly aware of it as I play a lot of shmups.

8Phantasm said If you have the best settings for SSF, I'm open to try them. I still have it installed to test games out.

The problem there is that, like I said, SSF is so finicky when it comes to settings that they often have to be tweaked game by game, not unlike PCSX2 honestly. There really isn't a one-size-fits-all settings solution for SSF, unfortunately, which is frustrating but at least in the newest version per-game configs are created automatically so that takes some of the tedium out of it. Often though, things can be improved with some fiddling. This was the guide I used as a starting point years ago; unfortunately, it's out of date but it does help give you a better idea of what settings do what and how certain things can impact performance. It's still useful, I think. If there's any games in particular you'd like me to take a look at, I'd be happy to. I can't promise any miracles but it can't hurt.

8Phantasm said I'm not looking to just play something just because it's the best we got, though. I like using real hardware in cases where the emulation is not up to par.

Oh don't get me wrong, I agree with that mentality wholeheartedly. If something is just too far off I don't bother, even if it's my only option. I guess I just don't think SSF is as bad as you're implying haha. If Yabause were the only option, for example, I would steer very clear of Saturn emulation altogether. I happen to think nullDC is a pile of trash too. Demul isn't perfect but it's at least close enough that it's within tolerance for me; though, once again, requiring a good deal of game by game tweaking.

[Lordmonkus]

Here is a backup of my SweetFX / Reshade files if you wish to try them out. I had to rename the file extension from 7z to zip to get the forums to accept the file type so you may have to rename the extension back to 7z. They may or may not work and they may or may not look like shit. I promise nothing at all and accept no responsibility for anything bad happening if you do try the so try at your own peril. Just extract into your SSF folder.

[Zombeaver]

lordmonkus said @Zombeaver What VDP2 Ram timing are you using ? Mine is checked on and Buffer Size is 24. I just went into the EZ Settings tab and clicked the Full Compatibility and left it at that other than turning V-Sync off.

That's the same as what I'm using. Hmm... I would swear I had to turn it on manually. Maybe I used a different starting template or maybe it just wasn't always included in Full Compatibility. I'm not sure.

[8Phantasm]

@lordmonkus: thanks for the .zip. That's a standalone SweetFX running through the ReShade injector, but it also gives me a black screen overlaying the emulation. I have to imagine if you tried now it would do the same. As far as windows, ReShade works fine in Windows 7 and 10 for sure. I've used it on many things. If it doesn't work on a game, it's usually just the game's fault. It wouldn't work in DX12 applications, though...and I assume not Vulkan either. @Zombeaver: I did have to put the VDP2 on, by default that setting is off. I guess I am just use to RetroArch's settings because I can remove input lag to the point where I can't notice any of it. I didn't try many games in SSF yet, since I figured they would all have the same amount of lag. I'll check a bunch out, though. I guess testing against PSX and MAME versions would be a good enough option.