dov_EL Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 I did not think latency could reach these levels. I wonder if puNES, Mesen, Nestopia have the same latency or accurate emulation exceeds LAGs. I played at Pounch Out, but I did not come to Mike Tyson to check if latency was so severe. Do you have any experience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dov_EL Posted May 19, 2017 Author Share Posted May 19, 2017 One day .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mothergoose729 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 (edited) The problem isn't emulation, it is LCD televisions. https://forums.libretro.com/t/an-input-lag-investigation/4407/424 The difference in lag between an emulated SNES on an LCD gaming monitor, and a real SNES on a CRT television is about one frame. This is as close as we are ever likely to get. If you are gaming on an LCD television the lag can easily stretch to two or three additional frames. This is because modern LCDs apply processing effects to the frame as it is being rendered to the screen; for example, frame duping to artificially inflate the frame rate, interpolation, saturation controls, dynamic contrast, ect. Personally, I do all of my gaming on an IPS LCD television, and to my eye the input lag is fine. My particular model has been tested and it has an approximate input delay of about 30ms, which isn't too far off real world scenarios for gaming monitors. If I leave all of the post processing effects turned on the input lag is way higher. For the best experiencing gaming I enable "game mode" and disable all the extra effects, which basically turns it into a big PC monitor. I recommend everyone gaming on a LCD television to do the same thing, whether you are gaming on a living room pc, a console like the NES classic mini, or a playstation/Xbox. Edited May 19, 2017 by mothergoose729 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dov_EL Posted May 19, 2017 Author Share Posted May 19, 2017 I have old version of DELL ultrasharp 32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordmonkus Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Yeah TVs are going to be the biggest source of input latency. Certain emulators can have more input latency than others but of course this varies from emulator to emulator. Retroarch does offer some features to help reduce it as much as possible but again certain cores and how they are coded can have more than other cores for the same system. Unfortunately there is no silver bullet solution to this problem, you can only reduce it as much as possible which is as @mothergoose729 said about 1 frame. In Retroarchs video settings turn on Hard GPU Sync, set Max swapchain images to 2, turn off threaded video, Hard GPU Sync Frames should be at 0, and set Frame Delay as high as you can before you start to hear audio crackle and distortion. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dov_EL Posted May 19, 2017 Author Share Posted May 19, 2017 This monitor is great !http://www.benq.it/product/monitor/gl2450hm/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordmonkus Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Yeah BenQ monitors are known for their low input latency. Personally I use an Asus G-Sync monitor which is a TN panel (TN less input lag than IPS) and because it is G-Sync allows me to run with V-Sync Off (V-Sync is another source of lag) without screen tearing. Now of course G-Sync displays are not cheap and not something I would advise anyone buy strictly for emulation, unless of course you have a boat load of money and don't care about cost. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicalEgo Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 BenQ do make quality monitors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dov_EL Posted May 19, 2017 Author Share Posted May 19, 2017 19 minutes ago, lordmonkus said: Yeah BenQ monitors are known for their low input latency. Personally I use an Asus G-Sync monitor which is a TN panel (TN less input lag than IPS) and because it is G-Sync allows me to run with V-Sync Off (V-Sync is another source of lag) without screen tearing. Now of course G-Sync displays are not cheap and not something I would advise anyone buy strictly for emulation, unless of course you have a boat load of money and don't care about cost. Great ! Thank You ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thatman84 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Cool topic. Whats the other areas that g-sync can help my computing experience? Google is not my friend... i like 1st hand experience feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordmonkus Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Well basically you get the benefits of V-Sync without the drawbacks of it. This means you get lower input latency because V-Sync does add some to all gaming. Now you could always turn off V-Sync to reduce input latency but then you will get screen tearing when your frame rate is not in sync with your monitors refresh rate. G-Sync itself really shines in PC gaming when your framerate fluctuates which is what will cause the screen tearing. G-Sync syncs the monitor to the framerate removing the tearing. This stuff is especially good with the newer high refresh rate monitors and maintaining a 120 - 144 frame rate is rather difficult unless you have an absolute beast of a system or you are willing to sacrifice graphic fidelity. In terms of console emulation G-Sync itself is actually pretty minor since most systems ran at 60 fps already. When it comes to Mame arcade emulation though G-Sync is actually extremely handy because the vast majority of games do not run at 60 fps. If you notice when you start a game in Mame it will show the game info and the Hz that the game actually ran at. You have 2 options normally here, you can either turn off V-Sync and let the game run at its proper speed but with screen tearing or you can enable V-Sync which will often speed the game up to match your monitors refresh rate (typically 60 Hz). Sometimes this 2nd option is extremely minor with no noticeable side effects but in many cases this will speed the game up affecting how the game actually plays, especially if the game itself has physics or AI routines tied to framerate. This is obviously something that will vary from game to game so there is no hard and fast rule for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thatman84 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Thankyou for that. Very informative. I guessed the mame stuff was handy for something.... now i know one use Serious offer if you ever want to write this stuff down in a static environment my site is always availiable. Not for personal gain just for getting that sort of info out to the public. To avoid the curse of forum archives and repetion. Then again i dont really have any timeframe for keeping that hobby alive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mothergoose729 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 (edited) 38 minutes ago, lordmonkus said: Well basically you get the benefits of V-Sync without the drawbacks of it. This means you get lower input latency because V-Sync does add some to all gaming. Now you could always turn off V-Sync to reduce input latency but then you will get screen tearing when your frame rate is not in sync with your monitors refresh rate. G-Sync itself really shines in PC gaming when your framerate fluctuates which is what will cause the screen tearing. G-Sync syncs the monitor to the framerate removing the tearing. This stuff is especially good with the newer high refresh rate monitors and maintaining a 120 - 144 frame rate is rather difficult unless you have an absolute beast of a system or you are willing to sacrifice graphic fidelity. In terms of console emulation G-Sync itself is actually pretty minor since most systems ran at 60 fps already. When it comes to Mame arcade emulation though G-Sync is actually extremely handy because the vast majority of games do not run at 60 fps. If you notice when you start a game in Mame it will show the game info and the Hz that the game actually ran at. You have 2 options normally here, you can either turn off V-Sync and let the game run at its proper speed but with screen tearing or you can enable V-Sync which will often speed the game up to match your monitors refresh rate (typically 60 Hz). Sometimes this 2nd option is extremely minor with no noticeable side effects but in many cases this will speed the game up affecting how the game actually plays, especially if the game itself has physics or AI routines tied to framerate. This is obviously something that will vary from game to game so there is no hard and fast rule for it. Based on what I have read, I find the claims that gsync reduces input lag, at least by more than a marginal amount, a little suspect. Especially because gysnc and freesync default to vanilla v sync when your frame rate is greater than or equal to your refresh rate. It does help a lot with removing judder in games though - everyone is familiar with the experience of moving the camera and it feeling less than fluid (*cough* skyrim is the worst *cough*). AFAIK though gysnc is pretty much completely without support in emulators (some of the D3D12 backends might work with it? Not sure). I use the "fast" vsync setting on my nvidia card, which basically lets the GPU generate as many frames as it cans and throws out the extra ones. I don't really feel the difference between it and regular vsync, but at least it didn't cost me anything extra Edited May 19, 2017 by mothergoose729 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordmonkus Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 I never said G-Sync itself directly influences input lag. It's more a case of no need for V-Sync so that is a reduction there and the monitors that have G-Sync are high quality gaming monitors with really low input latency. G-Sync is supported by emulators, it's not something that needs to be directly supported though some apps can just not work with it. Retroarch and Mame work perfectly with it and it is a very noticeable thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dov_EL Posted May 19, 2017 Author Share Posted May 19, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordmonkus Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Yeah he does a great job of explaining it, though you do have to ignore some of that guys attitude. He comes off as a bit of an arrogant prick at times but that doesn't change the fact of what he is saying is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dov_EL Posted May 19, 2017 Author Share Posted May 19, 2017 1 minute ago, lordmonkus said: Yeah he does a great job of explaining it, though you do have to ignore some of that guys attitude. He comes off as a bit of an arrogant prick at times but that doesn't change the fact of what he is saying is correct. ehehehe ? , ps. this is nice monitor ? https://www.amazon.it/Asus-VG248QE-Gaming-Monitor-1920x1080/dp/B00B19T7QC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1495227618&sr=8-1&keywords=monitor+g+sync Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordmonkus Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 This is the one I have here. https://www.amazon.it/Asus-PG278Q-Gaming-Monitor-USB3-0/dp/B00LBZLIXG/ref=sr_1_24?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1495228517&sr=1-24&keywords=monitor+g+sync 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thatman84 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Jeez that is the almost thw cost of the rig im planning on. no g-sync for me then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordmonkus Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Yeah it's not cheap and like I said further up in the thread it's certainly not worth it just for emulation purposes. But if you were in the market for a very good gaming monitor for PC gaming as well as emulation and you don't mind spending the money on one it's worth the investment IMHO. I absolutely love it and when before I bought it I was worried about it being worth the money, I was not let down and it surpassed my expectations. It really is one of those things that if you experience it first hand you will most likely love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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