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To be honest, I am glad and what you just said sounds great. Now, I suppose either nesting or OE-style would both still work with arrange. (for OE-style the left list would just change depending on sort option) What approach are you considering for nesting? expanding/collapsing ribbons or the "layers" type or something completely different? Maybe even a combination of both? If expanding/collapsing, the ribbons would just change depending on the "arrange by" variable set. If layers, then images could be set for each "arrange by" option. If platform, then platform images (like design below), if developer then their logos, if genre some genre images could be designed, etc. Hope that makes sense. I will have a think and try come up with some more ideas. I might even draw up some drafts if I have time. OFF TOPIC: I do like the idea of the "collections" that OE offers (like playlists), have you considered adding anything like this? Also, I think the darker bottom bar on OE looks better than the "system grey" colour used in LB. Dark menu and scroll bars would be better also. Just my opinion though. Visual examples:

Ok, I have an idea regarding the libraries and I have created a new thread like you suggested Jason. Quite simple really, how about a library per developer? Atari, Nintendo, Sega, etc. Obviously, some developers have more platforms & games than others, so maybe smaller developers could be grouped together. DOS could have its own and PC Games/Apps could have their own. Separating like this may have other benefits too, for example, the suggestion regarding the rename and organize feature. As you pointed out, Steam imports are different and DOSbox has it's own wizard, etc. If these platforms had their own libraries, would it not make something like that easier to set-up? if you catch my drift? This way, LB would manage everything under the hood and you keep things simple for the user. I do like the idea of having control over the libraries though. Have you considered an advanced settings menu? You could even hide it and make it only accessible from a keyboard shortcut or something, which will keep LB simple on the surface but allow users who know how, a little more control. Cater for both sides, fill the gap in the market but also offer some advanced customization options. I am starting to drift away from the topic at hand. So, how about libraries per developer as default and the option to manually control.

Jason Carr said Some good points there. We have some interesting things to discuss regarding how to do the libraries thing, and I'm not sure if I want to nail it down to a library per platform. I was more thinking any number of libraries, and you could divide them up however you wish. That might get too complicated though, I'm not sure. Just like the game details view (or worse), we'll need to have some significant discussion on this one. Might be good to put it in a separate thread. Yeah, this could be a tricky one, will need some thought and most likely a little trial-and-error. Jason Carr said Vinicius256 said Hey Jason, about the library, you could make it like OpenEmu. Take a look to see what I mean: http://openemu.org/ They have these lists by platform on the left side of the program. They also have a drag and drop function to easily import games to your library. Just an idea though Thanks Vinicius; that is certainly a nice and simple interface and one we should consider. I'm definitely not against it. I'm curious what bd's and everyone else's thoughts are on that interface vs. nesting, as we've previously discussed. Drag and drop is a bit more complicated because of the various types of games, but yes, certainly would be nice. I believe I have it on my list already; could start up a wizard of sorts when you drag and drop files. Also, yes, please do speak up and speak up often. I like the openemu interface, I had considered mentioning it once before when you posted a link to that LB article/review, but at the time I got the impression that you were determined to keep everything on a single page so I suggested the expanding/collapsing method. I also like the idea of the drag-and-drop suggestion. If you could drop a file/folder/selection onto the LB icon on the desktop and have LB rename, move, download content and add to library, that would be a pretty great feature. (Or just add to library for PC games or apps)

A scraper for game manuals. Somewhere like replacementdocs maybe? Automatic detection of game manuals when adding games. Maybe an in-app document viewer and a little icon on the "charms bar" to view it.

Something came to mind regarding the import/export features and I don't know if either of you have thought of it, or if it is just a little... taboo?! but read between the lines here. I think the import/export feature could help spread the word about LaunchBox. Users could set up a system, with all the games, the emulator, the game details/artwork and LaunchBox and have it all packaged up in a tidy and solitary zip file. Users can then move this zip file wherever they want and just unpack to a ready built complete library, no work required. One of your biggest hurdles is getting LaunchBox "out-there" and this has the potential to reach a lot of people, very quickly. If it can gain traction, it will be like a snowball rolling down a hill. Please feel free to edit this post. Next, I think the option to separate the games by a platform is a necessity, both for performance and ease of use. It all works fine using the filters, but having an option to visually choose a platform and only load games from that platform is a desirable feature. Like I said using the filters is fine, but it is not so easy for my son. If he could see an image of the platform and click that to view the games from that platform, that would be great. It's not just beneficial for children either, some people would just prefer visual representations of platforms that they can click to see the games, rather than having all their games on a single page and having to use filters or endlessly scrolling to get around, simple but true. I think the key here is "the option". Don't make either way compulsory, let the user decide. One simple checkbox would be all that the users would need to see, on or off. Under the hood, split everything up on a per platform basis, this could still aid users who decide to stick with a single page; e.g. LB could load only libraries that are visible on screen (or getting close) and if the filter menu is accessed, it could proceed to pre-load all platforms (images last, if at all at this point), then dump the ones not in use when the menu is closed. I am going to drift away from the matters at hand for a second and I would like to suggest something and here your thoughts. A really great feature would be if LB could organise your files. Rename, create directories and save images and nfos to those directories, etc.. Then add a local scraper. This would allow users to easily rebuild libraries without having to download everything again, and any customisations made could be permanently saved and carried forward. Also, a lot of people already have this sort of setup from other apps and it would make it an easier transition to LB for them. You could even add the option to move everything to the LB directory. Most emulators are portable, they could go into an emulator folder, the games into the games folder (organised and renamed if they wish), etc. You could even give LB the ability to download emulators and set everything up automatically, however, you would need your own repository of emulators. And if you could somehow add Xpadder automation, that would be the icing on the cake. If you could do this and make everything a million times faster and easier than the big players, you are on to a winner. I understand this would be a big job, maybe check out "RoM Jacket" for an example. This does pretty much everything I just said, but it does so using a bunch of scripts. It is all very chaotic and messy and complex and there has been questions raised over whether it can be trusted, so if you plan to run it, consider doing so in a sandbox or a virtual machine because last time I checked it still automatically downloads a lot of stuff without asking you. But maybe it could help or be some kind of guide on how to approach something like this. The idea of RoM Jacket is great, the principle is amazing and nothing else i have come across offers this kind of automation, but it is a mess. What this market is missing is simplicity, automation and organisation and so far you have proven that you can deliver just that. Thoughts? Sorry for the long post, believe it or not I tried to keep it brief.

Well, they are a minor annoyance when testing, maybe leave them out of the beta version, but I don't see any harm including them in the final versions. They may appeal to some users new to this sort of thing, however, as it stands, I think most people who will use your app will have looked for it (it's features) specifically and will more than likely have no interest in them. I say either way, no big deal.

Ok, will have a tinker with beta6 today. So far I have tested with Day of the Tentacle, Doom, The Dig, Cyberia and I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream. I will get round to testing some more games using varying methods.

Bulk editing is working great, have not encountered a problem yet. However, when bulk editing the emulator there is no option to add a new one, only select from a list of already added ones. Personally, I am not sure about the whole wizard type approach you have took and I would prefer just the normal edit window with the incompatible fields greyed out. This would make for quicker and easier editing. Less menu's, better visual representation and such. Also, since the notes field is now occupied by the game description, it may be worth adding something like a "tags" field.

Ok, I did a little more testing with the dos wizard and revisited the issue (i mentioned previously) earlier this morning. However, I was using beta3 because I did not stop by the forums before hand. The problem game I had initially when testing, turned out to be just that, a problem game. I tried installing it using DOSbox independently (not using LB) and I encountered the same error. It had nothing to do with LB and in the end I came to the conclusion that there is a problem with the disc image. Moving on, I tried 3 more games using the wizard (all ISO's though) in a fresh instance of LB each time. I tried different deviations (for each game) following on from the ISO option (e.g. do/don't move game, do/don't mount, etc.) and it worked without problems each time. Physical discs are a problem for me, i do have them, but they are in the attic somewhere and I really can't be bothered with the hassle. However, if push comes to shove, I suppose I could drag my lazy behind up there, equipped with my head lamp and venture into the cluttered maze of cardboard boxes. Hmm, I must remember to take bread crumbs, so I can find my way back... maybe a survival kit... and I can't forget my... "LunchBox" ... ahhh that was terrible... i am digressing. Anyway, I will download beta5 and do some more testing on the wizard, but I will switch the main priority to the bulk editing. I will try to report back tonight with the results.

OK, did a quick test with the wizard and it works great (using the variables i stated in an earlier post). The first game I tried actually failed, the installation failed in dosbox, but I don't believe it is a LB related issue. Will look into that further when I get time, just to be sure. Second game I tried worked flawlessly, LaunchBox made the set-up a breeze. No problems at all. Excellent work Now, if only TheGamesDB had a better DOS library! I will do some more testing for you later, but right now I got to go.

Hi, something came up and I have not had a lot of spare time the past few days. I will be more active in a day or two. I will try test the import wizard tonight in beta3. Looks like Brad is keeping you busy anyway Great work on testing Brad and great work for keeping up Jason Catch you guys later and I will do my best to get some testing done on the wizard tonight.

Haha, couldn't we all to some extent Looking back at the message, it does appear to be riddled with irritation, but I assure you, you were not the root of that. I was having a bad day. Yeah, you're right, if I am offended I will tell you outright, plain and simple "you just offended me", otherwise assume i'm not offended. OK, therapy over. I do feel better for talking about it, good to get it off my chest Same time next week?

That's interesting…definitely need to work through that issue and get it figured out. D: shouldn't be the issue as that's what it's mounted to in DOSBox, not on the system. I'll look at the code and see if I can figure anything out. Can you tell me what values you're putting in all the fields? Thanks, bd. Yeah sure: Tools > Install DOS Game Type name No, I have the installation files... Inside a CD Image ISO File ISO path entered Choose destination path (left at default) Yes, automatically mount the CD Yes, copy to the destination folder (copies fine) Ready to perform the installation in DOSBox ERROR! Hope this helps, if you need anymore info just ask.

Hmm, it's obvious that I should be apologizing for being brash, although it was not intended. Seems you have misunderstood me again. You did not rub me up the wrong way at all, It's just that with all my talk about workarounds lately, I feared I had inherited the persona of the "duct tape" guy and I just wanted to clear things up. On my systems, I admit, I have deployed many workarounds to make things work the way I want, but I would never ask a developer do it to their program. Who am I to jeopardise someone else's creation? So it was nothing more than an insecurity of mine that resulted in, what now looks like, an unwarranted rant. I was also having a bad day yesterday and that might of seeped into that post, but it was not intended to offend. I realise sometimes I can come off brash, it has got me into trouble before and that is why I feel written text, be it sms messages, hand written letters or forum posts etc, are one of, if not the worst forms of communication. 93% of communication is non-verbal, and this 93% is difficult to express using only text in a forum post. It is often left to the reader to decipher and more often than not, plain guess as to the emotion behind or the intent of the message and the result often reflects a variety of factors (much more so than face-to-face) on the readers end, as oppose to the writers end where it should be. (e.g. a general negative outlook on life/day/writer or they may just be having a bad day). Knowing this, I do try to work on my written communication so these misinterpretations are kept to a minimum, but I often get it wrong, this case in point. I appreciate that you appreciate and I also appreciate that you apologized when you felt you rubbed me up the wrong way, but it really was not necessary, thank you anyway I guess. Finally, I'm unsure why you thought I was suggesting I would move on. A hint of passive aggression leaking out perhaps? or another misinterpretation of the fact I mentioned other people may move on? Either way, it proves the point I just made. You see? Hmm, another rant. What can I say? I am passionate, sue me. It's as much a curse as it is a blessing. I am going to shut up now and hope I cleared that up and not made it worse.

Oh right. Didn't mean for it to be a workaround, I saw it as a tag for development purposes, an anchor if you like and also an extra bit of info for the user which they can utilise to make tasks quicker and easier. I use abbreviations all the time to speed things up, as do you. I was actually looking at the bigger picture here, it is not a workaround for this particular issue (although it does solve it) but it has potential for future uses. I thought it would be handy to have. The workarounds I suggest are user fixes, for features that are likely much further down the line, not everyone is patient enough to wait and may move on to alternative programs if it doesn't work the way they want right now. I just try to offer ways they can work with it now, so hopefully they stick around. Community is thin at present, I just try to help. I don't want you to start implementing mindless workarounds, they will cause you all kinds of problems in the long run and then what use is LaunchBox to me and the rest of the users when it is messy, fractured and broken and the developer throws his hat in because it is no longer worth the time, it would be easier to build the whole thing again, properly, from the ground up. I will however, make my own workarounds to make an app function the way I want it to, until adequate features are added by the developer which make my workarounds redundant and I am happy to help anyone else make it work for them too. All I offer you are suggestions or nudges that may spark an idea, I am not telling you what to do nor would I suggest you band-aid your program.

Good work Brad

Ok, I did a little testing this morning with beta1 (have not yet started beta2) and I encountered a problem. So, I tried installing a DOS game using the wizard, everything was going great, it really is clear and super easy to use Jason, excellent work with that by the way. Anyway, part way through the installation i got this error: It states: System.ArgumentException: The path is not of a legal form. at System.IO.Path.NormalizePathFast(String path, Boolean fullCheck) at System.IO.Path.GetFullPath(String path) at LaunchBox.InstallDosGameWizardForm.readyToInstallWizardPage_Commit(Object sender, WizardPageConfirmEventArgs e) at AeroWizard.WizardPage.OnCommit() at AeroWizard.WizardPageContainer.NextPage(WizardPage nextPage, Boolean skipCommit) at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnClick(EventArgs e) at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mevent) at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks) at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m) at System.Windows.Forms.ButtonBase.WndProc(Message& m) at System.Windows.Forms.Button.WndProc(Message& m) at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m) at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam) I was installing from an ISO. EDIT . My bad, I forgot to unzip CDRDAO Please just ignore me, it is one of those days. EDIT 2 . Hmm, ok, maybe I was a little hasty with my last edit. I have unzipped CDRDAO and ran the installation again and got the same error: System.ArgumentException: The path is not of a legal form. at System.IO.Path.NormalizePathFast(String path, Boolean fullCheck) at System.IO.Path.GetFullPath(String path) at LaunchBox.InstallDosGameWizardForm.readyToInstallWizardPage_Commit(Object sender, WizardPageConfirmEventArgs e) at AeroWizard.WizardPage.OnCommit() at AeroWizard.WizardPageContainer.NextPage(WizardPage nextPage, Boolean skipCommit) at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnClick(EventArgs e) at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mevent) at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks) at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m) at System.Windows.Forms.ButtonBase.WndProc(Message& m) at System.Windows.Forms.Button.WndProc(Message& m) at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m) at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam) EDIT 3 . Same thing is happening on Beta 2. Also, it tells me that the CD will be mounted to drive D: however that slot is already occupied. Might that be related?

@Brad Lol, absolutely! Also, I will have to checkout your videos sometime. @Jason Could you add a field for platform abbreviations? This would be a simple fix for the issue stated above and will probably come in handy in the future.

Yeah, fusion doesn't "need" the -gen -sms etc. commands, it is capable of detecting these for itself. However, it sometimes cannot. It is best practice to use those commands for any problem roms it may encounter. The -auto is for the region (u/e/j) and if all your roms are from the same region you are actually better using that regions command rather than -auto. Sorry, I meant leave it checked, so you don't get duplicates I don't know if you are a beta tester, but the latest beta just released had some new dos import features and I am sure Jason would love for you to test them and share your opinions. I wouldn't say LB was in beta stages, but it is still evolving like most program's do and I think it's future is both bright and exciting. What kind of videos do you do?

Yeah, I agree regarding the way LB handles the emulators, definitely room for improvement there. I think I am quite lucky that I didn't add my whole library first, although it would of benefitted Jason during the beta stages if I had. I have took a different approach, I added one game from each platform, got all my emulators set-up, xpadder set-up and a few other bits-n-pieces, so now all I have to do is start importing the games and everything else is automatic. I added a few (full) platforms and have just noticed this issue. So I might wait a little longer for this to be addressed and i really want those collapsable ribbons and preferably a better (or more complete) scraper than thegamesdb. We just have to remember that Jason is very busy and that patience is a virtue Also, I highly doubt this will work, but it might be worth a try; import a romset again (even though it is already in your library) and check the box for "Don't import games with the same title and platform as an existing game" and see if it updates the default emulator for all the other (already imported) titles.

Hmmm, I just started to add some more games to my library and I am having the same issue with the images not showing. But if I go back into edit they are there and when I cancel out of edit, they appear. Strange, because I never had this problem before. Maybe it is, like SentaiBrad said, due to the size of the library. I have not yet added my whole library to LaunchBox, this is mainly due to the fact I have just been testing it and partly because I was holding out for the collapsing platform ribbons. But since we just had a big release and a break from the beta's, I couldn't wait and decided I would start building. Only now has this issue surfaced...

SentaiBrad, you're absolutely right and I realize it is not ideal, but I was just suggesting a work-around until LaunchBox better manages circumstances like yours. As for the multiple platforms for an emulator, I just add a new emulator in LaunchBox for the extra platform(s), but link it to the same emulator (no need to create multiple instances of the emulator) and just name it differently and add the platform specific commands to that entry. For example, Fusion: Genesis Add emulator in LB, name it Fusion (GEN), link to Fusion.exe, add GEN commands, make default for Sega Genesis. Master System Add emulator in LB, name it Fusion (SMS), Link to Fusion.exe (same one as above), add SMS commands, make default for Master System. 32x etc. etc. So you are using the same emulator, but separating the platforms in LaunchBox. Hope this helps.

Jason, could you split it up into sectors, on a per-platform basis, so LaunchBox doesn't try to handle large libraries (all platforms) all at once? SentaiBrad, a work-around that may be worth considering if it is really causing you problems, could be to have an instance of LaunchBox for each platform and one main "Launcher" instance which links to each "Platform" instance. Then use scripts to close the instance that is not in focus (using LB's additional apps feature). Does that make sense?

+1

Have you tried installing it in Windows using compatibility mode? Works for some old titles for me.