Library Brainstorming

[Neon32]

Vinicius256 said I prefer the OpenEmu based style, and I agree that it's not that great to use on HTPC's or Large TV setups, so the best choice is to make the OpenEmu interface first, and then go after the big screen style, so the users can choose what's best for them to use, just my opinion though.

bd00 said OE Style I decided to draft how LB might look with an OE style interface. You may have noticed I added a "charms bar" to the top of the sidebar, with some possible features.

me too , but instead of showing all the the consoles you could show only the consoles which the user has games for ie for the games the user has added to the LBox library. this saves the scrollingdown time which a user takes to get to a console which is Alphabetically higher like Sony Playstaion or SNES if the user has a ton of games in the alpha'lly lower Console like NDS(as in my case )

[nmc]

Hi all, just got back from my vacations. Glad to see the new launchbox features. I would like to see a diferent concept in Launchbox, like a slider dock with the emulators images, it would support perfectly both the mouse and controllers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu1G34GSrKM I don´t know how hard it is to implement a concept like this ( double layer ), the wheels are diferent from the other frontends i have ever seen. Just a thought.

[sincro]

bd00 said OE Style I decided to draft how LB might look with an OE style interface. You may have noticed I added a "charms bar" to the top of the sidebar, with some possible features.

I love OE style!

[SentaiBrad]

nmc said Hi all, just got back from my vacations. Glad to see the new launchbox features. I would like to see a diferent concept in Launchbox, like a slider dock with the emulators images, it would support perfectly both the mouse and controllers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu1G34GSrKM I don´t know how hard it is to implement a concept like this ( double layer ), the wheels are diferent from the other frontends i have ever seen. Just a thought.

That I do not think would go over so well. Putting that in to the program would require graphic design and using DirectX or OpenGL libraries probably. Jason and I already talked about utilizing GPU for some processing power, and that is just not in the cards with just him. So building an entire graphical interface? Not to mention, I think that would get away from being intuitive. The program as it sits right now at least most people know how to use at a base level. Once you confuse someone with a new look, a radically new look that only the power user would have normally seen, I think you start to alienate the audience. I agree that looks pretty cool, and with the ./hack Wallpaper, its fitting. But maybe in the future? Maybe as a theme if and when a themeing system can be implemented well enough for that level? We still have a lot of relatively big issues and the design choices were talking about in this thread are minimal changes compared to what you're talking about. Though I will admit... it looks pretty badass, save for a little bit of clunkiness.

[nmc]

That said, i rest my case. The oe style fits perfectly but the images could be a bit bigger for controller usage.

[Jason Carr]

Thanks a ton for everyone's input here. It sounds like most of us are in agreement that bd's mockups of the OpenEmu-style interface would be the best approach. Many thanks to bd for all that work, and to everyone else for this discussion. I did some further research on theming LaunchBox with a nice dark theme like that tonight, and had some pretty great success, but had to use a product called VisualStyler from SkinSoft: http://www.skin-soft.co.uk/Purchase/Default.aspx It's actually a really great product from what I can tell, and it allows you to apply any .msstyles theme (that works on Windows XP on up) to the application. So we could easily provide the option to choose between a nice dark theme and the Windows defaults, or the user could specify any .msstyles Windows theme. That'd be pretty awesome (it already is from what I've tested): To be clear, that's just one possible theme; just a basic dark theme with zero tweaking or effort on my part. There's a ton of other .msstyles themes available on the web to play with (check out http://customize.org/xpthemes for instance). But here's the catch. A license to the library is $250, which I can't afford for the moment. I hate to ask, but anyone care to help out? I can significantly contribute, just couldn't drop all of $250.

[bd00]

The dark theme looks very promising, it needs some tweaking but it is a great start. As for donating, I dropped you a donation (5GC654934T697832D) a couple of weeks ago and that on top of other donations I have made the past couple of months to other projects and charities, I'm all "donated out" right now. Sorry

[SentaiBrad]

We literally have $70 in the bank till she gets paid again next Thursday, and I am saving at least $30 now and $30 next time for Sims 4. Day one videos. So sorry, I could use donations actually. That said, screw trying to get access to it? Do we NEED that license? Is it just for the styles or for the ability to use it for the program? If there is no way to build it in themeing right now, then if the program is going to undergo UI and UX changes what about a code rewrite? I know, that's a nightmare to think about, but you said there are things you could have done better. I don't know if all of it needs to be rewritten but... something to think about if the long term effects are we can keep everything "in engine" and doesn't require a license for 3rd party access. Not to mention who knows how restrictive that license is? Not that you are going to charge for LB, but it could be a nightmare? Either way, I am happy to see LB coming along.

[Jason Carr]

bd, you did send me an extremely generous donation already, and I will put it towards that for sure. Thank you indeed. I hear you Brad. Been there, done that, no worries. We can't use that feature without the license. The license is not restrictive and would not be an issue in any situation outside of adding more developers. And yes, I am planning on restructuring the games view, but not the general window/controls stuff, which this applies to. So, it does still make sense. Might just have to save up for a while before we can make it happen.

[Jason Carr]

I've been thinking a bit. This is a pretty controversial topic I realize...but sooner or later, I'm gonna hit a wall with the project financially and probably eventually time-wise too. There's a million things to do yet with the project beyond what we already have, and I think it has HUGE potential. The issue is, the bigger it gets, the more money it will cost to maintain (web hosting, etc.) and the more time it will take to maintain and improve. I'm currently considering a freeware/premium model of sorts, where all of the current functionality is available for free, but you have the option to upgrade to an improved version with special features (like theming, more advanced customization options, etc.). I'm considering this mostly because I want this to be a long-term project, and I don't want to have to limit its features or not make it as good as it could be because I'm scrounging for funds. I also have to admit I would *love* for this project to be a full time focus (as opposed to the side project that it is currently). To be clear, anyone who's donated already would have the upgraded version free for life. I also hate DRM, so that would absolutely *NOT* be included, and the cost of the upgrade would be extremely inexpensive (probably $5 or $10 or similar). If everyone hates this idea, I won't go through with it. Straight up. I want this to be at least somewhat a community decision, as obviously it affects us all. So, to those of us on this thread, let me ask you a few questions: - Would you find it offensive or would it leave a bad taste in your mouth if LaunchBox went to this free/premium model? - Assuming you hadn't already donated, would you pay to upgrade to the better version with advanced features? - Specifically, what would you want to avoid doing if we did move to a free/premium model? Thanks everyone; please do speak up as we need as many people's feedback on this as possible. Obviously this isn't an easy decision to make (and trust me, it's not one that I had planned on making). Let me know. Thanks, Jason

[SentaiBrad]

Jason Carr said I've been thinking a bit. This is a pretty controversial topic I realize...but sooner or later, I'm gonna hit a wall with the project financially and probably eventually time-wise too. There's a million things to do yet with the project beyond what we already have, and I think it has HUGE potential. The issue is, the bigger it gets, the more money it will cost to maintain (web hosting, etc.) and the more time it will take to maintain and improve. I'm currently considering a freeware/premium model of sorts, where all of the current functionality is available for free, but you have the option to upgrade to an improved version with special features (like theming, more advanced customization options, etc.). I'm considering this mostly because I want this to be a long-term project, and I don't want to have to limit its features or not make it as good as it could be because I'm scrounging for funds. I also have to admit I would *love* for this project to be a full time focus (as opposed to the side project that it is currently). To be clear, anyone who's donated already would have the upgraded version free for life. I also hate DRM, so that would absolutely *NOT* be included, and the cost of the upgrade would be extremely inexpensive (probably $5 or $10 or similar). If everyone hates this idea, I won't go through with it. Straight up. I want this to be at least somewhat a community decision, as obviously it affects us all. So, to those of us on this thread, let me ask you a few questions: - Would you find it offensive or would it leave a bad taste in your mouth if LaunchBox went to this free/premium model? - Assuming you hadn't already donated, would you pay to upgrade to the better version with advanced features? - Specifically, what would you want to avoid doing if we did move to a free/premium model? Thanks everyone; please do speak up as we need as many people's feedback on this as possible. Obviously this isn't an easy decision to make (and trust me, it's not one that I had planned on making). Let me know. Thanks, Jason

I am torn on this. I agree with you, you want it to be full time. You would probably like to hire or recruit some extra help. But on the other hand, if the user feels like they have to pay for the program to any useful, then they just wont use it. They'll stick to current methods or find alternatives. I am not saying I am against it, I am saying the message needs to be clear that the program works just fine, and the same features that you've been used to since launch. Also make it clear you're not forgetting the general user base who doesn't want to donate, doesn't think its worth it, or simply can't - which is the camp I fall in to saddly. I want to donate, and will when I can, but can't just donate when ever. There needs to be a clear structure for the program. Usability, basic scraper functionality and maybe some other Features we can work out will be free. Always free, because if not then what is the point? But if you want some more advanced scrapper options, themeing support, maybe some forum incentives and priority support with the program, you can donate some money.

[bd00]

It is always sad when a project reaches this point, but it is usually inevitable in situations like this. Don't feel bad though Jason, this is a very common milestone and those of us who know how much time you are & will have to put into this project understand. They are some things you can do before you need to go "paid-for" though, if you choose too. In a nutshell: 1. A marketing campaign to increase user-base and hopefully boost donations. Get your current user-base to help with this. 2. Special Offer: All users who participate in the marketing campaign get a free premium license for life. They must prove what they have done and it must be enough. 3. Special Offer: All current users who donate will get a free premium license for life when/if the app ever goes premium. 4. Put out an update with a pop-up message at start-up, like you do now, but DON'T allow users to hide it next time LB starts (a temporary nag message). Include details of the situation, etc. etc. Remove it in the next release (make that clear in the message) after you have made your decision. You need to let all users know of the situation, not just the forum users. Also, get a message out on Facebook detailing the "drive". You need to make it clear to your users, the direction you are taking LB. Things like themes and the sidebar are big changes that I believe could be just enough to get people participating. It is not ideal I know. It is never great when developers have to do this kind of thing, but it is necessary, simple as that. At least if you do have to go premium, you have offered your current user-base a chance to earn a pass. I also have a few things in my mind if you decide to go premium (especially without DRM) but I will save those for later.

[jtrain]

I wouldn't mind paying $5 or $10. If your're up in the $40 range then I might have a problem. Also, I hate subscription models or having to constantly pay for new versions so I would prefer a model where I can buy a lifetime premium license.

[bd00]

jtrain said I wouldn't mind paying $5 or $10. If your're up in the $40 range then I might have a problem. Also, I hate subscription models or having to constantly pay for new versions so I would prefer a model where I can buy a lifetime premium license.

Donate $10 now jtrain to secure a lifetime license and support the developer

[SentaiBrad]

Yes, what bd said. It would most likely be $10 at max anyways.

[jtrain]

bd00 said

jtrain said I wouldn't mind paying $5 or $10. If your're up in the $40 range then I might have a problem. Also, I hate subscription models or having to constantly pay for new versions so I would prefer a model where I can buy a lifetime premium license.

Donate $10 now jtrain to secure a lifetime license and support the developer

Done.

[Vinicius256]

Jason Carr said - Would you find it offensive or would it leave a bad taste in your mouth if LaunchBox went to this free/premium model?

Not at all.

Jason Carr said - Assuming you hadn't already donated, would you pay to upgrade to the better version with advanced features?

I would love to contribute by donating or buying the program, the problem is that I'm still 15 and to buy things on the internet is already terrible, because I have to ask my parents to buy stuff for me, and knowing my parents, they won't let me donate, sadly

[Jason Carr]

Thank you jtrain for donating! Vinicius, I know how that is, and even after going premium I'm likely to just hand it out to people who want it but have legitimate reasons why they really couldn't pay. Thanks for sharing your input, and I'll make sure that people who have major issues paying for things on the Internet (or flat out can't afford much at all) will still be able to ask for and probably receive a copy. To be clear, I am envisioning that anyone who pays would get a lifetime license to the premium version. I'm not looking to nickel and dime folks, that's for sure. bd, you're right, I haven't done any in-app advertising asking for donations. In fact, I've wanted to completely avoid it, because I know how irritating it is. That said, obviously it will need to happen at some point. Maybe for the next version we can advertise on the welcome dialog at least. What I want to avoid entirely though is spamming people with advertisements who've already donated or already purchased the premium version. I dislike forcing that welcome dialog too, because I know it would piss me off. Anyways, thanks everyone for your feedback. It does sound like we will probably look to create a premium version eventually, though it will probably be at least a couple versions before it happens.

[SentaiBrad]

Vinicius256 said

Jason Carr said - Assuming you hadn't already donated, would you pay to upgrade to the better version with advanced features?

I would love to contribute by donating or buying the program, the problem is that I'm still 15 and to buy things on the internet is already terrible, because I have to ask my parents to buy stuff for me, and knowing my parents, they won't let me donate, sadly

I was planning on donating several times when I can. So the first $10 I donate next Thursday will be on your behalf.

[bd00]

Jason Carr said Thank you jtrain for donating! Vinicius, I know how that is, and even after going premium I'm likely to just hand it out to people who want it but have legitimate reasons why they really couldn't pay. Thanks for sharing your input, and I'll make sure that people who have major issues paying for things on the Internet (or flat out can't afford much at all) will still be able to ask for and probably receive a copy. To be clear, I am envisioning that anyone who pays would get a lifetime license to the premium version. I'm not looking to nickel and dime folks, that's for sure. bd, you're right, I haven't done any in-app advertising asking for donations. In fact, I've wanted to completely avoid it, because I know how irritating it is. That said, obviously it will need to happen at some point. Maybe for the next version we can advertise on the welcome dialog at least. What I want to avoid entirely though is spamming people with advertisements who've already donated or already purchased the premium version. I dislike forcing that welcome dialog too, because I know it would piss me off. Anyways, thanks everyone for your feedback. It does sound like we will probably look to create a premium version eventually, though it will probably be at least a couple versions before it happens.

Yeah your right, not being able to disable it would be too much, forget I suggested that. I hate ads in apps too, but I do understand why devs need to do it. What we are talking about here, I don't really consider it as an ad but more of a notice. Seeing notices in free apps saying "If you like this app, please donate..." never bothers me like true ads do. I also think you should start encouraging your users to start spreading the word about LaunchBox, but that's just my opinion. I also think anyone who helps you in beta testing, should get a license too.