Wolf_ Posted May 7, 2016 Author Share Posted May 7, 2016 Hi, I'm having a hard time setting up my Sega CD emulator and had a few questions, any help would be greatly appreciated. 1) MasterSystem Eu Bios, MasterSystem US Bios, MasterSystem JP Bios, Sonic & Knuckles bin, Sonic & Knuckles UPMEM bin, action replay pro bin, and ggenie bin are listed as "optional" bios. What impact does having/not having them make? 2) I can't get Genesis Plus GX to play my Sega CD roms, does it accept .cue files for iso files with the audio split into mp3 files? 3) I obtained the Sega CD bios for all 3 regions and properly renamed them but I'm not sure if the versions were all the same release or if they were correct. Will that have any impact? Or better yet without breaking any forum rules could any one point me in the direction of a Sega bios pack with the optional bios included? I tried googling "Sega Genesis Plus GX Bios pack" but it didn't give me any worthwhile results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SentaiBrad Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 Well they're not specific to the Genesis Plus GX, but I assume since you are using that you're on RetroArch because that doesn't exist for PC standalone otherwise, so your issue isn't with that but rather RetroArch. I covered All of the Sega consoles up to CD in a tutorial on our channel. I would give that a watch to see if that helps. You can get there by clicking the link in my signature below all of my posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf_ Posted May 7, 2016 Author Share Posted May 7, 2016 SentaiBrad said Well they're not specific to the Genesis Plus GX, but I assume since you are using that you're on RetroArch because that doesn't exist for PC standalone otherwise, so your issue isn't with that but rather RetroArch. I covered All of the Sega consoles up to CD in a tutorial on our channel. I would give that a watch to see if that helps. You can get there by clicking the link in my signature below all of my posts. I've watched it about 5 times (Make that 6 because I watched it again before replying to be sure) but sadly it doesn't really answer my questions. I still don't know why the "optional" bios are optional (I would assume those features simply wouldn't work, and yet the SMS works without the bios so perhaps they are optional because they do nothing, but if that is the case then why does the Sega CD not work without the bios?) And when you added the files it only shows the .cue files so your audio could be in .ogg format or something so I don't know if my roms are supported or not. (This happened to me before with neogeo roms which turned out to have a special ragex formatting to them and wouldn't play in mame) Lastly you were just like "I got these bios but can't talk about where/how I got them" which is fine because laws, but you didn't give us any information about which sega cd bios you used or how you set them up. Like which version of the bios you obtained and what files you renamed to what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SentaiBrad Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 I honestly don't know the version because it was a RetroArch pack (it included everything), that said the latest versions should work just fine. The BIOS are optional for features in games or system features that may need them. BIOS may improve compatibility or may not, they're optional for GBA on PC but not for Android or on PSP probably because they include instructions that only the BIOS has in this situation. It means they re-wrote some functions, but if they're not working increase compatibility with these optional BIOS. Some games don't come with audio files, if they do the cue sheet says where and what to load. If you are still getting blank screens it could be the BIOS files, so either find the RA pack or try the latest BIOS versions you can find, the games could have been ripped poorly and you will need to re-rip or find a different download, and the last thing that could be wrong is the cue sheet is pointing to the wrong name or has a full path name inside of it that doesn't exist on your machine. You can open cue sheets with Notepad++ to edit them, at the top of most of them should be the exact name of the bin file (including .bin) and if it has audio files, should follow that with audio file names and some extra info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordmonkus Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 Hopefully I can help you with your Sega CD issues. Check my video tutorial in my signature. It covers more than the Sega CD but that's ok. Be sure and check the video description for some extra info. I don't know if Retroarch supports separate ogg and mp3 audio. All my Sega CD stuff is in cue and bin. For Playstation it does support them as long as the cue sheet is written properly but I cannot say for certain for the Sega CD, never tested it myself. My video does cover the bios, where they go and how they should be named. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf_ Posted May 7, 2016 Author Share Posted May 7, 2016 SentaiBrad said I honestly don't know the version because it was a RetroArch pack (it included everything), that said the latest versions should work just fine. The BIOS are optional for features in games or system features that may need them. BIOS may improve compatibility or may not, they're optional for GBA on PC but not for Android or on PSP probably because they include instructions that only the BIOS has in this situation. It means they re-wrote some functions, but if they're not working increase compatibility with these optional BIOS. Some games don't come with audio files, if they do the cue sheet says where and what to load. If you are still getting blank screens it could be the BIOS files, so either find the RA pack or try the latest BIOS versions you can find, the games could have been ripped poorly and you will need to re-rip or find a different download, and the last thing that could be wrong is the cue sheet is pointing to the wrong name or has a full path name inside of it that doesn't exist on your machine. You can open cue sheets with Notepad++ to edit them, at the top of most of them should be the exact name of the bin file (including .bin) and if it has audio files, should follow that with audio file names and some extra info. Okay that is just silly. Search for bios by console name... a bunch of random results, could be what I need, or could be not what I need and way too many different file names to cycle through even assuming all the ones with the same name from different sources are actually functional. Search for bios by emulator name... no results. Search for bios by the name of the front end... exactly what I need right away. Ah well, live and learn. I've now got the correct bios and double checked the file names of the first couple cue sheets and sadly it still doesn't work. Looks like I'll need to download another collection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weltall Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 Retroarch supports mp3 files, like the ones I have, but only with the Picodrive core. This is the reason I am not going to use RetroArch for SegaCD, because PicoDrive is not as good as either Kega I am using, nor Genesis Plus GX. If you want to confirm about the mp3 you can read it here. http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Genesis_Plus "Please note that other compressed audio files (such as .mp3, .mpc, .wma, etc) are NOT supported and audio tracks should be using 16-bit stereo 44100Hz format." Even if this is the Wii version, GX version which became avaialbe for Windows, did not add the support. If you will use Kega, all I can point out is that you should activate as soon as you use it Perfect Synch in it's options. If not activated, games will have a lot of problems, glitches, or simply not play. From tests I did on all US games, there was only a single game that did not work with Kega's last version. Rising of the Dragon (If I remember the name well). That lead me to look around the internet and finally found a post mentioning that the latest version of Kega messed something about Sega CD emulation. Using Kega 3.63 (which is what I am using for my SegaCD games) actually let me play that game perfectly fine. Of course the above is only if you want to play mp3 converted games. Front what I read Genesis Plus GX is really good for emulating Sega CD, so I would probably use that too if it was not for my files to differ. I guess it is the same for me with TurboGrafx-CD and Mednafen, since I have them on ogg format. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SentaiBrad Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 Yea I'm sorry, but at least you found proper BIOS files! Since they're optional in RA though we know that the black screen (or quick close) doesn't mean the BIOS are wrong, it's probably meaning that the rips are bad or the cue sheets are wrong. Edit: PicoDrive also does CD if you wanna try that out. Just swap the line in Associated platforms and if you have a custom config line after that for Gens Plus GX remove the line or it might crash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SentaiBrad Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 weltall I haven't ran in to any issues with Pico actually but I use Genesis Plus GX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weltall Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 I have compared 5 games between Pico and Kega. It was not so much issues as having laggy videos or sounds being off. One of them I think it was Afterburner, in case Wolf wants to compare. Obviously it might just be my setup, but after testing 5 games, I was convinced Kega was better for that, at least for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SentaiBrad Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 Honestly my testing wasn't all that comprehensive, I mostly just use Pico for the system GXP doesn't emulate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordmonkus Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 Bios files are the one thing in emulation you cannot debate when it comes to legality. Emulators themselves are perfectly legal, roms are legal as long as you own an actual copy of the game, bios however are only legal if you dump them yourself and because of this distributing them is just opening yourself up to way too many possible legal issues. This is why they are so annoying and finding the right ones can be a pain in the ass due to vagueness. It's just something that has to be dealt with. The following stuff I will say is based purely on what I have read on the interwebs and I am in no position to say whether or not it is true or not. I will say though from my experience I believe to be true or at least very close to it. Picodrive is (again from what I have read) a decent emulator but does have flaws, especially in its 32X emulation. The Kega Fusion is a very good emulator and it's 32X emulation is extremely good, probably the best out there. It does however have some issues with frontends and exiting out of. Genesis GX is supposedly 100% accurate (or extremely close to it) for its Genesis and Master System (Game Gear is just a shrunk down SMS). CD based games distributed with MP3 and OGG audio files are rips and are not considered proper dumps and the audio quality can and often is of lower quality. Proper CUE and BIN dumps are pretty much guaranteed to be fully working and full quality audio. I highly recommend obtaining proper dumps, it will save you headaches in the long run. If you need some help getting proper dumps send me a private message and I will point you in the right direction (unless Brad tells me I am not allowed to do that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SentaiBrad Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 No don't publicly post where to get games. It is a common misconception, Roms are NOT legal if you own the game either. It also needs to be dumped by you as well technically speaking. Granted, they are less stringent and it is up to the publisher or developer to go after someone, but the guys who sell their old games (Nintendo, Sony, Sega), make DMCA claims ALL THE TIME. Some sites you may see will have an entry for the game, but no link because it was DMCA'd. Someone on one of our video's was trying to fight me on this. It is illegal, 100% as it stands right now and is certainly extremely grey (hence all the misconception like Abondonware is NOT a thing) and no matter how much other people do it (which was his argument). Chances are you wont get targeted by a company that is long gone, but you never know who owns the rights to what and had someone pee in their breakfast that morning. I agree that Abondonware should be legal with proper checks and balances in place for companies who are no longer around so someone could for example, offer an alternative server to a game that doesn't have one anymore. Blue Burst is a server for Phantasy Star Online and it is extremely popular, Sega doesn't go after them. Blue Burst is technically illegal (unless they got permission, I have no clue) but Sega doesn't operate with Phantasy Star Online 1 anymore, they make no money off of it (except maybe merch) and thus they don't go after it. Just because there is no reason a company shouldn't go after you, doesn't mean they can't or won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordmonkus Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 I think you misunderstood me, I would never post publicly where to get games but if someone sent me a private message I would respond in private. If that is not allowed please tell me and I won't do that either. Don't want to get anyone in trouble. Rom legality is dependent upon your countries copyright laws. You do need to own a legit copy and you are legally entitled to have a backup copy for yourself. Again this is dependent upon your countries laws. The practical reality is that no one will go after you unless you are profiting from roms or distributing them. The sites that do host and distribute them are set up in countries that don't care for copyright laws and they have a server host that will just ignore any DMCA claims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weltall Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 For better or worse, I cant use Genesis GX, but I can say with certainty Kega starts every single English game from tests, with the only non working being Rising of the Dragon that needed 3.63. I tested them up to the point where it starts the game and I can play, so I can't say for sure they will work without bugs. I am using MP3 and OGG images for space. I was having a talk with a friend that was telling me that will lower their sound quality. I then just told him I listen to my music with mp3 and when I listen to music, there is no gameplay with it. I am just listening to music. When I play a game, I play a game indeed for it's music, but I doubt I will recognize the quality loss between an uncompressed WAV file and a compress mp3 @ 128kbps file. The loss in kbps might be liek from 1500 to 128, but the Khz loss is usually from 22KHz down to 16-18khz, depending the compression. If I had some awesome spreakers that can catch the slightest of changes in sound, and I was someone that loves audio and music, I would probably not choose the mp3 ones. But when it comes to using 25-33 more GB of space, only for that, I will go for the HDD space. Obviously, I am talking as a player and not a collector. A collector would wish to have the 1:1 copy of the game. PS: It is ok to get ROMS from the internet, not because it is legal, but if you have the original media, you can claim you did the copy, if for whatever reason you will need to. But that is only because there is no way to prove that is not your copy. Obviously if the comparison shows differences, like different version or whatnot, that simply means that copy is not of your game, but it is another game. So in other words, It is legal to keep roms, only because no one can prove you were the one that created it. As soon as they can, that going in the trash >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordmonkus Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 The only reason I suggested looking into making the switch to proper CUE and BINs is for future proofing your collection. Some day you may decide to make the switch in emulator and it may not support the mp3 / ogg formats. Or you may decide you wish to actually get a real Sega CD and you can't afford the $300+ or find certain games you may have in your collection. You could then burn them and play them. Fusion a very excellent emulator Like I said above. I believe it is the best 32X emulator out there and only up until recently did Genesis GX pass it in terms of overall quality but it's very close just like how ePSXe 2 and Mednafen PSX are neck and neck now. Edit: Rom laws are like the marijuana laws in Canada, illegal but unenforced for personal use but if you are a dealer you will get in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SentaiBrad Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 In our case, we profit from this, so we can not offer them. Albeit we profit in a secondary, cursory way. Which country you are in does depend on the law, but our servers are located in the United States so users (even if you are from another country) have to obey that. Jason and I don't like being hard asses about it, but we love what we do too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf_ Posted May 7, 2016 Author Share Posted May 7, 2016 SentaiBrad said In our case, we profit from this, so we can not offer them. Albeit we profit in a secondary, cursory way. Which country you are in does depend on the law, but our servers are located in the United States so users (even if you are from another country) have to obey that. Jason and I don't like being hard asses about it, but we love what we do too much. Trying not to get sued and shut down is something everyone that uses your product (and has a brain) should appreciate so no worries. All you are doing is surviving while you deliver us a frontend that doesn't require command line configuration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordmonkus Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 It's very much standard practice across all emulation discussion forums to not talk about where to get roms. You have to be hard asses about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weltall Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 At least Kega and Mednafen can emulate the English games that exist. If one or two exist that do not work, I will live with that. But I always go with the logic, if it is not broken do not fix it. Then again a handful of Sega games had controller issues, specifically ones that needed a gun. But I am really not picky enough to care for originals. I would never buy myself a real life Sega CD though.. except if it was the really awesome CDX, which actually looks cool. Sadly currently I have a lot of free time, if you can understand what I mean with sadly when saying that. But considering the love for Sega, I doubt I will not be able to get the original images if I ever wish to. I can see why people hated Sega CD, since the quality of especially its FMV games is putrid, but I thankfully am one of the people that find this horrible quality something of the past.. I was so jealous of Mega Drive owners when I was young and I had a SNES XD As for offering roms, people like hiding behind their fingers, but as long as it keeps things safe, it is nice. How easily a site can close because someone throws dirt. Especially now with news going around the net so easily, stuff can go bad. It is amusing though, cause I personally prefer to get ISOs even if I own the game... I really do not like the idea of putting my CD games inside my drive and ripping them and I am not even a collector. I guess I just do not trust my PC DVD drive much and I hate scratches on my games >.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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