Who has written this? Is there a ghost here?

[xevious1974]

Hi again...

Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock (Duplicate, Please Overwrite) Details - LaunchBox Games Database (launchbox-app.com)

I have requested this set. I have set the name: Guitar Hero III:  Legends of Rock [Subset - Expert Full Combos]

It was accepted

Now it is changed to (duplicate, Please Overwrite)

Ok, who was? Why? I am making a lot of topics and who writes this does not reply? What is that?

There is a strict council that decide for the others? And I am not deserving a reply from this council?

It is a joke? 

Anyone is able to explain me, please?

What are mods for if a metadata is accepted and then the High Council is allowed to decide for the others? 

ty

[kurzih]

I don't know about your case, but let me explain you a few things about the database moderation/submission mechanics. And also reasons why current moderation is really problematic:

1) it takes only 3 moderators to let a submission go through. And there are so many moderators right now that if it happens to be three "trigger happy" ones just pressing the green button without much thought it might go through without actual/proper moderation.

2) I've witnessed at least hundreds or even thousands of times a submission has gone through which has clearly broken the database rules (noting that as of today I have rejected over 35 000 submissions/changes but also accepted over 364 000 - so I know what I'm saying). That is why even if something is initially accepted, it may not be rightfully accepted.  

3) There is an ancient database bug that when adding a new entry, especially if you do add a lot of "new games" in the database, some of them will result in duplicates. Usually they are the next Launchbox ID. Like if you had the database create ID 334678 it could have made an exact duplicate (but without any media in it, just the texts) as ID 334679. There is no cure for this until the database will get a major overhaul.

I don't know if your case is a database duplication bug, or are the moderators (those who really look into things and take time to decide) seeing something that shouldn't be there. But that question is for those doing alterations on your entries.

Personally I think replacing duplicate/deletion entries bring other kind of problems. That's why when I frankly don't know what should be done; if it's green (accept) or red (reject), I press yellow (skip).

Edited January 19, 2023 by kurzih

[IainSA]

27 minutes ago, kurzih said:

I've witnessed at least hundreds or even thousands of times a submission has gone through which has clearly broken the database rules (noting that as of today I have rejected over 35 000 submissions/changes but also accepted over 364 000 - so I know what I'm saying). That is why even if something is initially accepted, it may not be rightfully accepted.

Same here, I've noticed since about April 2022 there seems to be a bit of an "Accept everything" policy going on with the majority of moderators. No matter how blatantly wrong the submission is.

59 minutes ago, xevious1974 said:

I have requested this set. I have set the name: Guitar Hero III:  Legends of Rock [Subset - Expert Full Combos]

In my opinion these should be rejected. From my understanding these hacked subsets change NOTHING about the actual game and are just used to trick RetroArch in to giving you a different set of achievements. According to the guidelines that would not warrant a separate entry in the database as there is no significant difference between the original and hacked game.

[xevious1974]

1 hour ago, kurzih said:

I don't know about your case, but let me explain you a few things about the database moderation/submission mechanics. And also reasons why current moderation is really problematic:

1) it takes only 3 moderators to let a submission go through. And there are so many moderators right now that if it happens to be three "trigger happy" ones just pressing the green button without much thought it might go through without actual/proper moderation.

2) I've witnessed at least hundreds or even thousands of times a submission has gone through which has clearly broken the database rules (noting that as of today I have rejected over 35 000 submissions/changes but also accepted over 364 000 - so I know what I'm saying). That is why even if something is initially accepted, it may not be rightfully accepted.  

3) There is an ancient database bug that when adding a new entry, especially if you do add a lot of "new games" in the database, some of them will result in duplicates. Usually they are the next Launchbox ID. Like if you had the database create ID 334678 it could have made an exact duplicate (but without any media in it, just the texts) as ID 334679. There is no cure for this until the database will get a major overhaul.

I don't know if your case is a database duplication bug, or are the moderators (those who really look into things and take time to decide) seeing something that shouldn't be there. But that question is for those doing alterations on your entries.

Personally I think replacing duplicate/deletion entries bring other kind of problems. That's why when I frankly don't know what should be done; if it's green (accept) or red (reject), I press yellow (skip).

Thank you a lot for your reply. Seems I am entering a bigger world full of problems.

34 minutes ago, IainSA said:

 

In my opinion these should be rejected. From my understanding these hacked subsets change NOTHING about the actual game and are just used to trick RetroArch in to giving you a different set of achievements. According to the guidelines that would not warrant a separate entry in the database as there is no significant difference between the original and hacked game.

Thank you for your reply. Obviously I can understand your thought BUT

What I mean, anyway, is that only if you hack that rom you can play the new RA. So, at the end, you are using an hacked rom. Not the official one.

If we enter the problem of "How much should be hacked a rom to be considered an Hacked rom"...we'll die before reaching a solution. 

I apply a patch? Yes. ---> I hacked the rom.

And we have 2 problems:

-1)exchanging complete playlists. Try to dl my playlist and add them to your launchbox, subset may disappear because they have same entry of the original game if we dont separate them

-2)If they are on the same entry, when I click on that game I can see only the achievements of the base rom and not the subset one. Ok, you can say it is not a great problem, but why I am using a feature that I cannot completely use? There are a lot of RA players and having a quite perfect UI that handle RA can help spread LB software.

 

But, if we speak in general of DB entries, what I cant understand is "DB has some space (HD) problem that cannot handle other entries? What is the problem adding a total of...100 roms (for all platform) for a feature that we are using?" I cant understand that. 

I think we are blindly following an idea without improving or adapting it to the situation

Thank you again for your time!

[LonestarK]

Have you tried adding "Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock [Subset: Expert Full Combos]" as an Alternate Name on the Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock game entry?

[xevious1974]

On 1/27/2023 at 1:10 AM, LonestarK said:

Have you tried adding "Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock [Subset: Expert Full Combos]" as an Alternate Name on the Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock game entry?

Thank you for your reply!

I admit that I have thought this "escamotage".

But:

1) I dont like littering the database. I mean, that is not a true alternate name and I cannot put it in.

2) I need a separate entry.

3) I have not made a check on that, but I fear that passing an xml to someone, LB can remove 1 entry and lower the total games number.

So, it can be a local solution and can work for sure, but I think it is not the best solution for all

 

Thank you again for your idea

 

[LonestarK]

I don't quite understand.  It sounds like you haven't tried adding the name as an alternate name on the original game entry in the database;  on the basis that you don't want to litter the database with alternate names, but you're okay littering the database with duplicate game entries.

It's my understanding that RA loads trophy sets based on the hash value of the rom/iso, not the name of the rom/iso.  Sounds like there's an issue with the playlist you're trying to share.

[neil9000]

1 hour ago, LonestarK said:

It's my understanding that RA loads trophy sets based on the hash value of the rom/iso, not the name of the rom/iso. 

That's actually correct, but for them to show in Launchbox and Bigbox it is the rom name and not the hash that is used there, so correct/alternate names in the database are important for showing achievements in Launchbox/Bigbox.

[LonestarK]

Okay, so would an alternate name work or does it have to be a primary?  Forgive my ignorance; I don't use retroachievements.

[xevious1974]

2 hours ago, LonestarK said:

Okay, so would an alternate name work or does it have to be a primary?  Forgive my ignorance; I don't use retroachievements.

Primary
 

4 hours ago, LonestarK said:

on the basis that you don't want to litter the database with alternate names, but you're okay littering the database with duplicate game entries.

it is a little different. I am asking to insert a NEW entry, in a place (HACK) that can contain a lot of variant of the same game.

But I dont want to litter an entry that already exist with a data that it is not official.

So, Devil May Cry 3 Subset is not an official release, and I dont want to see this title in a place that contain only official data. But I can accept it in hack, for example.

 

[moudrost]

Would creating a new game type help alleviate the confusion this is causing? Something like "RetroAchievements Subset" so it will delineate the purpose of the new entry. I get why you are wanting them added, but reading these posts over the past few years, it seems clear than any time devoted to getting these added as alternate names and new entries seems like it is wasted work. They either get rejected out of hand or eventually get pruned over time.

It is asking a lot of the free time people devote to not only understand the uniqueness of an entry but understanding one that is needed for a 3rd party service. I thought long and hard when I started creating and sharing my own RA playlists and intentionally left out adding any of those until an actual system is in place to reliably show them.

[xevious1974]

On 1/31/2023 at 9:09 PM, moudrost said:

Would creating a new game type help alleviate the confusion this is causing? Something like "RetroAchievements Subset" so it will delineate the purpose of the new entry. I get why you are wanting them added, but reading these posts over the past few years, it seems clear than any time devoted to getting these added as alternate names and new entries seems like it is wasted work. They either get rejected out of hand or eventually get pruned over time.

It is asking a lot of the free time people devote to not only understand the uniqueness of an entry but understanding one that is needed for a 3rd party service. I thought long and hard when I started creating and sharing my own RA playlists and intentionally left out adding any of those until an actual system is in place to reliably show them.

Yeah, I agree. I can obviously accept any smart solution, a new platform can help. Also another guy here on the forum has suggested this. I think we'll have problem managing the emulator for that unique platform that contains different system (Ps1, Ps2, Arcade and so on). New entry in the right platform is the best solution.
There's a kind of ridiculous conservative philosophy that doesn't allow some to think that adding a few hundred titles in a cauldron like the "HACK" one will create an improvement in the situation. That's why I was wondering if there were space problems...
Luckily they are working on the Database. Reading what Jason says I understood that the direction is that of a better experience for all. So I'm very optimistic about the future of Retroachievement.