LaunchBox Beta Testing

[Jason Carr]

SentaiBrad said Edit 2: Sorry, trying to not make so many posts. Is there any way to expand how LB searches for Games? When importing most of the time it catches about 70% of that romset, sometimes ... not much at all. Is it based completely on TheGamesDB? Cause sometimes when I go back afterwards and search for a game, I don't have to edit the name at all and it finds the game. Sometimes I have to edit the name a bit then other times it see's nothing at all. Which can either be name discrepancy or just that GDB has no entry for it. So, can the search rules for LB be expanded? I would think that they could, and it would probably help when we get the ability to start searching on Wikipedia, MobyGames etc. Though with Wikipedia the internal search would have to include so much more like "Game" so that its not searching movies or books.

Yes, the search is all based completely on TheGamesDB. But also, it requires a 100% match in the title, sans for punctuation. I did it this way because that way at least you know that everything that *is* matched is correct and what isn't is obvious. In other words, I didn't want any accidental false matches. But certainly, this could be improved to better match things up (I do already do some checks for & vs. and, etc.). And yes, definitely plan to add some other search options for other sites.

[Jason Carr]

SentaiBrad said I only have images for what TheGamesDB has found. I'm not sure I could give you an accurate read on it, maybe about 50% to 60%though.

Ah, still, that's interesting. Can you check your total RAM usage after slowly scrolling through your whole collection? I'm curious.

[Jason Carr]

SentaiBrad said I gues I'll make a new post for this. What would be awesome for LaunchBox too, would be to launch any game on your system period. Steam has its own client, GOG is soon to have it own client, Desura is a client, Origin is a client. Then there are individually installed games from other sources or retail discs that don't go to a client. What about being able to import exe's? You could do a blanket search like with importing roms, then a check box pops up asking for each entry, making sure its only adding in games and not programs. Some games from some clients may not launch from .exe's though, but some Steam games don't like that as it is now too, so. The alternative method would just to add one game at a time if you're like me and have games installed in different locations, but my GOG installs are all in one giant folder in their own separate folders. It can pull its name from the parent folder, which can be tricky for some games like The Sims 3 where its .exe is in a Bin folder... but that you can add manually. This would give the program the ability to launch any game from your system period. Steam, Desura, GOG, Origin, DOS, Rom and anything else in between. I just thought of that because I was thinking about all the GOG games I have installed and It would be cool to see them in a list. You can also create a new Filter settings. "Platform." This would allow to sort by Steam, Origin, Desura, GOG, Regular Install, Rom and DOS. I'm not sure how to implement that yet but it would allow for more sorting options when your library starts to get like mine.

Yeah, definitely, have that planned as well. As you mention, there are some interesting challenges, but it can just do its best and you can manually follow up wherever needed.

[SentaiBrad]

Jason Carr said

SentaiBrad said I only have images for what TheGamesDB has found. I'm not sure I could give you an accurate read on it, maybe about 50% to 60%though.

Ah, still, that's interesting. Can you check your total RAM usage after slowly scrolling through your whole collection? I'm curious.

Sure. I'll have to add another rom set or give you my current resource usage then an updated resource usage. I removed quite a few games to get back down to not lagyy levels.

[Jason Carr]

Thanks, Brad.

[SentaiBrad]

K, so I just opened LB and I checked the LB file size... wow I was surprised. 9.47GB... pretty much just images. So if it is related to images... I can see why. Combination of XML, Pictures and Disk Usage for the large file size. Edit Note^^ That was after clearing the cache. Anyways, resource time. 2752 Games. No noticeable lag. Just opened, top of the library. CPU: 0% RAM: 4.2mb/s - 6.0mb/s Gave it some time, I was doing something, opened Task Manager again, 17.8mb/s DISK: 0mb/sec K, time to scroll through the library. I wont have any reference points to where the resources are spiking but I'll try to give an accurate read on them. CPU: Roughly 6% - 17% RAM: K... so interesting results. Roughly from 6mb/s to 75mb/s when scrolling slow. Fast I got it to peg to 250mb/s - 350mb/s DISK: 0mb/s This is with a non-laggy library though. I can guarantee a difference if I add in Game Boy.

[SentaiBrad]

Also it may be more trouble than its worth, but the way you wrote the program is there a way to have a debug console? I was thinking there could be a debug console and a way to write that console to a txt file and we can post it for you. That way you can get developer and code specific notes that bd and myself just can't see, and maybe an even more accurate resource count. Edit: Also you can add me to steam if you'd like, I can still make my posts here on the forums so my findings are logged, but if you have more questions or anything like that you're more than welcome to do that there. That goes for anyone else on the forums. http://steamcommunity.com/id/SentaiBrad/

[SentaiBrad]

Ok, resource update time. Added Game Boy and I got it to lag when editing a bit... but not as much as usual. So the bigger the library the longer the lagging can get. I'm curious what it would do after I added Steam etc... jeez. I should also probably give a breakdown of my system specs... I don't know if that will shed some light on everything but... CPU: i7 930 2.8GHz GPU: GTX 460 768mb VRAM RAM: 8GB DDR3 RAM (forget the mhz... certainly not 1600.) Library Count: 3199 Folder Size: 9.62GB Idle resource- CPU: 0% - 0.1% RAM: 6.3mb/s - 6.5mb/s - 15mb/s -That spike was for a split second DISK: 0mb/s Scrolling resource- CPU: 0% - 11.1% RAM: Up to 240mb/s DISK: 0mb/s Lets add more back in because I'm not satisfied with breaking it only a little. Library Update 1: Count: 3620 While importing, CPU got up to 1.1%. RAM was up to 29.4 MB/s and Disk usage was up to 1.4 MB/s. Folder Size: 9.80GB Still not satisfied as the resources still resemble the idle stages of before. So lets import TurboGrafx 16 back. Library Update 2: Count: 3920 Folder Size: 10GB While importing the resources stayed roughly the same except CPU got up to 2%. Idle resource usage: CPU: 0% - 3% - 6% I have conflicting reads here... even not when alt-tabbing. RAM: 5.3mb/s - 7.3mb/s oddly when Alt-tabbing it spiked to 13mb/s. DISK: 0mb/s .. I don't know if this means we can rule out my theory on disk usage being part of the problem. Scrolling resource usage: CPU: 6% - 13% RAM: 6.7mb/s - 485mb/s DISK: 0.1mb/s even when scrolling like a mad man. Also, note for importing and images. I imported roughly 400 GB games and 421 GBC games. Well GamesDB only has 301 GB games and 151 GBC games. As for TurboGrafx 16, I imported 300 games and TGDB had 207 games. So I obviously don't have images for a good % of that imported library. Anyways, hope all of this data helps somehow.

[Jason Carr]

SentaiBrad said Also it may be more trouble than its worth, but the way you wrote the program is there a way to have a debug console? I was thinking there could be a debug console and a way to write that console to a txt file and we can post it for you. That way you can get developer and code specific notes that bd and myself just can't see, and maybe an even more accurate resource count. Edit: Also you can add me to steam if you'd like, I can still make my posts here on the forums so my findings are logged, but if you have more questions or anything like that you're more than welcome to do that there. That goes for anyone else on the forums. http://steamcommunity.com/id/SentaiBrad/

Just added you on Steam. I do like to keep most discussions open and documented though, of course. A debug console is a great idea, but of course it would take a long time to implement (as I haven't built any debugging messages and I'd have to add them everywhere). Still, I could add it and then just add in debug messages when necessary (when something needs debugged), so I'll probably do that next time run into something that's tough to resolve. Might take a while for performance though.

[Jason Carr]

Jason Carr said

SentaiBrad said Also it may be more trouble than its worth, but the way you wrote the program is there a way to have a debug console? I was thinking there could be a debug console and a way to write that console to a txt file and we can post it for you. That way you can get developer and code specific notes that bd and myself just can't see, and maybe an even more accurate resource count. Edit: Also you can add me to steam if you'd like, I can still make my posts here on the forums so my findings are logged, but if you have more questions or anything like that you're more than welcome to do that there. That goes for anyone else on the forums. http://steamcommunity.com/id/SentaiBrad/

Just added you on Steam. I do like to keep most discussions open and documented though, of course. A debug console is a great idea, but of course it would take a long time to implement (as I haven't built any debugging messages and I'd have to add them everywhere). Still, I could add it and then just add in debug messages when necessary (when something needs debugged), so I'll probably do that next time run into something that's tough to resolve. Might take a while for performance though.

Sorry, I should have clarified better, but I'm more interested in the total RAM usage with a large library. It is possible that the high disk usage was due to too much RAM being used. What is your total RAM usage with a huge library, after slowly scrolling through it all?

[SentaiBrad]

That's the thing. After I would scroll through the library and I was at the bottom. RAM wasn't any higher. It got over 200+ mb as I was scrolling. The faster I scrolled the more it got pushed. But if I was scrolling normally, there would be a slight increase, but then would settle back down regardless. All of that was in the testing I did.

[Jason Carr]

Okay, sure. Interesting. I'm hoping I can work on the performance some this weekend and put the next beta out.

[Jason Carr]

Brad, in your laggiest setup: - How's the performance when you first start the app? - How's the performance when you edit and save a game? - How's the performance when you change filters or arrangement? Mainly, how do they all compare. There's slightly different stuff going on in all three scenarios so it might help identify some of the culprits. I need to come up with a huge collection so I can test. I think I'll probably import a bunch of ROMs. Thanks, Jason

[SentaiBrad]

Every scenario lags that edits data. Once I've reached laggy i.e. (Not Responding) levels, almost every single action does this. There are a few exceptions, but its because no data values are actually being changed from what I can understand. When I edit then cancel that edit, it goes in and comes back out without any No Responding lag. That's how I determine its a bad lag. A program lagging on certain actions can be fine if its 1-3 seconds of processing, but once I see Not Responding, that personally is no good. How they compare? Well honestly, like I said, once it says Not Responding, it doesn't matter too much if its 5 seconds or 9 seconds which is the general time frame. I can handle 3 seconds of an action, and if the program doesn't freak out we're good. But especially on larger libraries... which is ironic because that's what causes this, it becomes extremely tedious. Also when I specify 3 seconds, 5 - 9 seconds I am already assuming actions take some time, but considering I can change filters, edit items etc etc and that usually goes instantly or within 1 second, anything over that or that causes Not Responding and becomes unresponsive is too much. If you want I can more accurately make a video of this if you would like Jason.

[Jason Carr]

Alright, here's beta 3. Been talking over IM to Brad to see if I could improve the performance, and I think this should significantly help. The filters drop downs now only populate when you actually drop them down. It's not quite as pretty, but saves a whole lot of waiting time with large collections, and you can still use the filters without populating the drop downs. I also sped up game population in general. And of course I fixed that wizard issue that you found, bd. Can you retest? Thanks to all.

[SentaiBrad]

Here comes the new round of "What Is Broken Next". For those playing at home you can text Guess: to 12521 or you can tweet us @YouDunBrokeIt. Not a real contest... but hey, its time to break it again!

[SentaiBrad]

So, now that lag is virtually fixed for..... a while... I think there were a few features we talked about and kicked around. There is also the Feature Request forum section, but I'm not sure whats implemented or being worked on, so I can't comment there. Same with bug fixes. I don't know if there are any extra bugs that haven't been fixed yet, so don't let my very short list of features get in the way. --The Reference Error when importing Conf files. --Letting the user pick when importing rom's to choose the Folder Name as the imports naming convention. --Batch importing DOS and ScummVM games like the roms. <- That is going to take a while though because that will probably have a lot of rules and arguments. If not this then that. --Multiple Import Filters for Roms. Being able to set *.iso, *.bin, *.img. --Remove missing game entries if the Rom files or Steam files are missing. Just like removing cached images works. I also need to test out installing DOS games from source media and one by one from folders REALLY before Batch Importing is implemented, at least installing by folder. So tomorrow after I edit South Park The Stick of Truth, that's what I will be doing. That's all I can think of right now but I've been awake for almost 24 hours... so good night. Edit: Actually.... I already have something to add as I am importing Steam games. Would it be possible to setup folders that LaunchBox will scan when you tell it to? Say I install a new Steam game, well I could "reimport" Steam games and point to that folder, but If I set it up in the options to always point to the 4-5 folders I always have setup for steam games I could just hit one button to rescan them all. Same could go for ROM's... except that default extensions would be a bit harder. Edit 2: Apparently I can't stop thinking about this program, even when I am brushing my teeth before bed damn it! So I remember you saying that LB caches images in RAM based on their size. What if we could make them smaller? Not too small, or It would ruin the look of the program. So, im not even sure it would be a good idea, but it could... maybe some sort of pretty looking list with more thumbnail sized icons or maybe like half the size. Hm... now I am really going to bed.

[SentaiBrad]

Ok, so I have been playing around with LaunchBox, trying to go through all of its features and break things. I am using it now to start sorting my games for my YouTube channel and it works perfectly. That said, there isn't too much left in the way of bugs that I can see. I am just one person, and I could be very wrong. I am sure you have an internal bug list but from my point, I can't find any at this time... well except importing conf files, but were hoping to make an alternative anyways right? The list of features I said above I still think is a strong list that in my opinion should be required. Before a bigger audience gets this there just needs to be some more usability I think. Not that you can't use this program as is, its just that most of those features would go a long way. I do have a few notes from using it, however I am going to make a separate post with the list above so that I don't keep clogging this thread. This should really be only for the beta releases.

[Jason Carr]

Thanks, Brad. All sounds good. I did recently add another large new feature: bulk game edits (finally). That one was seriously needed, badly. So I'm done adding big new features for this particular release, but might work in some tweaks (from your list above). We'll get them all tackled, though, of course. Thanks for starting a new thread for unrelated discussion, that should help. Looking forward to you and bd's testing results on the DOS wizard. The auto-update folders would certainly be nice; I'll add it to my long-term list. We'll have to talk about what you mean by the smaller images. I'll likely have a new release for testing tonight, but the DOS stuff won't be touched. It'll only be new stuff (and maybe some changes per bd's list above). So don't let that stop you from testing. We still really need the DOS stuff tested well, especially. Thanks, Jason

[SentaiBrad]

You seem to not be on steam. If you fix anything for DOS right now, please just fix the Reference Error when importing Conf files. If you think you're closer to working on LB's own DOS import function than forget it, I'd rather help get that working instead. I am adding more and more games to the list now, so I am trying to expand it as much as I can. I should do some DOS install tests at some point today, just been feeling blah. As far as adding the list of items I put a few posts up. Most aren't new features, instead a lot of things we've talked about are just tweaks. Bulk Editing, Multiple Import Filters and letting the user choose the folder name for each rom. The only new feature I can think of that is really important is DOS importing, Wikipedia searching (that will take a long time though) and removing game entries if the file its pointing to is missing. Or the alternative to that last one would be to let the user delete the file the entry is pointing to from within the program. So when you delete an entry it will ask you if you want to remove the file as well. I was going to make a thread but... I don't even know what I am gonna call it or what is going to be inside it. I might make two, Brad's Personal List of Requested Features and Tweaks and Brads List of Bugs!