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Tony

Secular version of Launchbox

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I noticed quotes from the Christian bible in the about fields in Launchbox which links to biblegateway.com. I'm fine with and encourage seeking something more about this life as I've done for twenty years in reading various philosophical and religious texts which led me to a secular conclusion. I realize this isn't an easy topic to discuss without irritating people but religion, to me, is like politics and best left out of professional applications. I don't think I could buy Launchbox again if I'm fed religious text from various supposed gods just like a theist would be annoyed if I put atheist quotes in my applications espousing lack of belief in any gods. Do unto others, right? If I'm searching for the more meta things in life, I turn to philosophical and religious texts. If I'm looking to game, have fun and I discover I'm using a program that tries to preach to me things that I've previously analyzed in life and then concluded aren't correct, it's just an annoyance and makes me think there's alterior motives there and that they're looking at me to buy more than their business, they're looking to buy minds.  

Yes, I realize you think you're intending well but besides not being truth to me and many others, quoting religious texts about your god takes a swipe at your customer's beliefs who believe otherwise and it's just not a professional thing to do. When people want religion, philosophy, politics, etc they'll seek it out, it's not something that should be shoved into their faces. We see it all the time on TV and internet anyway. The rare times I game, it should be a break from all the people trying to buy and influence your mind with their ideologies. I like you personally, Jason, you seem like a kindred spirit who is on the same path as I and searching for the more meta things in life so I don't intend any offense here but merely offering a suggestion. I just don't think I could buy it again if I feel like I'm paying to support an ideology that I don't support and view as incorrect.  

Also unrelated but I just got upon updating, "Unable to download update: An exception occurred during a WebClient request". I realized it's due to lack of space but a friendly "out of space on drive D" or whatever might prevent a few forum posts. 

Edited by Tony
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I'm an atheist personally myself and I feel that this is Jason's website and if he wants to  express his beliefs on his site or in his program then that is his choosing if that would influence you not to purchase the product that is your and anyone else who feels the same ways options. While you bring up a valid point and that it could influence others not to purchase the product on the flip side if you value your beliefs strongly enough then that wouldn't even matter and you would be perfectly content selling it to those who either shared your views or those who were tolerant enough to allow you to express them as you see fit. One of my major complaints about most religious people is that they are extremely intolerant it is a shame to see an atheist showing the same intolerance that we have been trying to free ourselves from since the church persecuted Copernicus

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13 minutes ago, DOS76 said:

I'm an atheist personally myself and I feel that this is Jason's website and if he wants to  express his beliefs on his site or in his program then that is his choosing if that would influence you not to purchase the product that is your and anyone else who feels the same ways options. While you bring up a valid point and that it could influence others not to purchase the product on the flip side if you value your beliefs strongly enough then that wouldn't even matter and you would be perfectly content selling it to those who either shared your views or those who were tolerant enough to allow you to express them as you see fit. One of my major complaints about most religious people is that they are extremely intolerant it is a shame to see an atheist showing the same intolerance that we have been trying to free ourselves from since the church persecuted Copernicus

I do value my beliefs, that's why I speak up. This isn't intolerance, it's a suggestion. An example of real intolerance is atheists in my state not being able to run for legal office or even jury duty because you have to profess believe in gods officially. I'm just stating that I see enough of the battling over minds in everyday life and when I want to relax, it's not something I want to be blasted with. Besides, you can only have so much tolerance before intolerant beliefs try to take over what you can or can't do in life. My beliefs aren't ones which value tolerance first and foremost, they value truth. 

Before you go on an impulsive tirade, read again that it's a suggestion, not a demand.

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I'm sorry it just seems that your suggestion is extremely arrogant to me. 

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2 minutes ago, DOS76 said:

I'm sorry it just seems that your suggestion is extremely arrogant to me. 

I don't view it as such. Take what I said, for instance, to do unto others. I wouldn't want to embed a quote by Nietzsche professing lack of belief in gods in my software because I know many people have many varying beliefs which could be just as valid as my own and I think it'd be offensive if I did such a thing, especially when they're just wanting to game and relax with a product they purchased. That's why I prefaced my initial comment with warning that it's hard to even suggest an idea like this because people can take such offense; your comment seemed to prove just as much. I'm sure I can make a suggestion about the software in any way and chances are you wouldn't get as offended. When you get in this territory, it seems politically incorrect to offer a suggestion lest an army come out and attack you. Politicians can criticize anything these days but criticize religion and you're hounded. Leave it be and let Jason think about it, it's his choice. There's just no need to be so hyper-vigilant about such a benign suggestion. 

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Wew lads lets keep it calm.

I am also an atheist, and some months ago I was going to suggest Jason to make an option to it opt  in-out from some religious quotes at the Games Database. But I was going to suggest it so user profiles could have this option. That way we can give a choice to anyone. But honestly I forgot about it and I only notice those quotes  when someone speaks about them, otherwise I don't notice them at all.

But the more I think about it, the less it makes sense. Like, if a person do not believe X thing, why would that person be bothered by a quote from X thing?

Like, lets say I dont like Star Trek, and I see Star Trek quotes all over the place at a forum. Why would that bother me? Those are only words for me, without meaning so why do they bother me?

In my opinion, if a person is sure about him/herself, about his beliefs or non beliefs, that person shouldn´t be annoyed by a simple quote, unless that person is still unsure and reading those words sparks something in him/her.

Jason and the staff are at Retropalooza so, Tony, there wont be any official statement about this soon i think.

Sorry for my grammar and cheers!

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Those are only words for me, without meaning so why do they bother me?

Because some of those phrases are used to harm society and people. In some ways too intolerant, in some ways too tolerant when there needs less. In some ways, ideas that seemed true then but proven false now. I'm on the other side, I just don't see why it's that big a deal to implement such phrases in software. I won't abstain from purchasing good software from a Muslim but I'll be sure to let him/her know that if they try to embed quotes from the Quran in their software, I'm going to think twice about buying it next time. Not because I'm intolerant of that religion or religion at all but it may endorse things that I don't care to and I'm not going to pay to endorse a pet ideology someone may have, only the software relevant to me; that's all I'm saying. Again, I'm not saying he can't, I'm giving a suggestion; one which I think would be more respectful to customers if they're not aware when they buy software that they're going to be mindblasted with more quotes from more religions and gods, something many of us have had enough of these days. In Afghanistan I had to fear Muslims blowing me up for not believing in their god and come back home here and you have people using their religions to buy more minds and if you don't buy into it, you can't run for legal office or you get hounded by people who believe in various gods of some form or another. When you speak up about a mild annoyance like now, people can't seem to take it gracefully that it's a bit annoying. It's not even that big a deal but it becomes a big deal because I have to write paragraphs to explain a mild annoyance. I figured it would and sure enough, it seems to devolve into the theological over a simple suggestion. I feel many people would feel the same but just wouldn't want to speak up nor did I really because I knew people would make a big deal about it and I'd have to write a bunch of replies to defend myself. Not only that but I don't want to annoy Jason any even though I'd consider it a more respectful and professional choice.   

Just a simple opt-in/opt-out, as you suggested, would suffice such as 'which quotes from which religions would you like to be mindblasted with today' and give me one like 'no thanks, I get enough of that from the mother-in-law' or something. But also cheers to you and Jason and staff. I hope they're enjoying Retropalooza. 

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I'm just curious, but do you find it upsetting when an artist signs their paintings? 

"When you speak up about a mild annoyance like now, people can't seem to take it gracefully that it's a bit annoying. It's not even that big a deal but it becomes a big deal because I have to write paragraphs to explain a mild annoyance."

It's the self serving approach you take, brah. No one asked you for paragraphs. You write paragraphs because you don't like what you want to say when you say it concisely:

"I want to use your awesome software, but I want it on my terms."

or

"Can you please take yourself out of your creation, I like the one but not the other."

I'm sorry you had troubles. It sucks. But then, we all do. If you're looking for grace, look to the people who believe the same things you did and just rolled with the punches because maybe everyone deserves to be "mildly" annoyed occasionally if the end justifies the means. 

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12 minutes ago, fromlostdays said:

I'm just curious, but do you find it upsetting when an artist signs their paintings? 

No, names aren't phrases for or against killing certain people or telling them that if they don't believe in the same gods, that they're going to nifleheim, hell, hades or whatever world is the flavor of that religion if you don't believe in their gods. Names have no connotation.

18 minutes ago, fromlostdays said:

"I want to use your awesome software, but I want it on my terms."

or

"Can you please take yourself out of your creation, I like the one but not the other."

I'm sorry you had troubles. It sucks. But then, we all do. If you're looking for grace, look to the people who believe the same things you did and just rolled with the punches because maybe everyone deserves to be "mildly" annoyed occasionally if the end justifies the means. 

An author is not a religious text. Just like I'm not my lack of belief in one god or another, I'm not going to sign my professional work with 'God is dead - Nietzsche' because I respect the people's beliefs that pay me for my work. And you're strawmanning here with the first phrase. I paid for it so it's my software and I prefer to not have it subversively spray another middle-eastern ideology in my face as I got enough of that a decade ago. If we all rolled with the punches and just accepted whatever people believed and didn't seek more truths, we'd still be living in the dark ages but I stand up for my beliefs. I let it be known I don't support, with my own hard-earned money, any ideologies that I don't agree with. If you don't like what I say, fine, but let it be known I won't pay for software from a group that still supports me not running for legal office even though I fought and risked my life for this country so people could be free to preach to me. I'm sure not going to pay for more of it. I don't care if you have to read more words, you ask more questions, I answer more. The same could be said for yourself with being concise. It's a simple suggestion that I barely cared to mention but you can't do that without people getting in a bind with a simple suggestion. 

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11 minutes ago, fromlostdays said:

"I paid for it so it's my software"

If its yours, fix it any way you want it, amigo,

If you don't know, you can't in a compiled .exe without changing the checksum and going through a more elaborate means to defeat the checksum routine. Possible but not worth my time. It's barely worth my time for the initial suggestion but I can't do that without at least three more people getting offended and me having to defend the initial suggestion. 

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Wow, I was away for a couple of days and I miss out on this.

Going a little over board here on a simple front end for video games aren't we ?

I was going to rant all over this but you know what ? I simply don't care.

If you feel Jasons extremely minor and very discreet bible quotes are that offensive then you got some issues, get over it.

For the record, I am extremely anti religion and I mean I despise it big time but what Jason has been very discrete about slipping a few quotes in here and there which is fine by my standards.

As long as I don't see popups and a little Bonzi Buddy in the bottom corner of my screen quoting bible stuff then we're good to go.

Locking this thread before it goes any further with needless non emulation and Launchbox related stuff.

 

 

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