Questions About Un-Zipping ROMS, The Weird Compressions, Encryption, Programs In The Third Party Folder Of LB And Also About The RA Updater Within LB

[ChristopherNeff]

Hi, not sure if this belongs here or in trouble shooting, but I got 6 questions about LB and it's features and functionality. It's somewhat lengthy-ish so I apologize in advance.

1. When adding ROMS to LB, do we need to un-zip them first before importing them, or does LB do that automatically? Basically, I noticed in the Third Party folder of LB, it had stand alone/portable versions of usually installed programs such as VLC, ScummVM, DOSBox and 7-Zip, etc. The 7-Zip is what's got my interest the most. So my question is essentially this: When I have ROMS that are zipped as either 7Z or RAR and are ones that HAS to be extracted first in order for an emulator to play them, (such as PSONE Bin and Cue files being RAR'd) then do I need to install 7-Zip and then un-zip those files BEFORE adding them to LB, or is that what LB's built in 7-Zip is for? Meaning, can I just take a RAR or 7Z or Zip of a game that needs to be extracted such as a PSONE game that is a Bin and Cue file and simply add the compressed file to LB, and then LB will just automatically use it's own built in 7-Zip to extract the Bin and Cue files for me during the import process and properly add them to LB's game folder etc, or ISOS, or any other format that HAS to be extracted first for that matter? Essentially laziness and it does literally ALL of the work for me?

2. Sometimes, some PSONE ROMS and other games will have a very weird compression where they will be ECM'd and I'd have to download some weird zip file program that is portable that UN-ECM's those ROMS. Also, maybe other weird things that have to be removed from a ROM to make it playable. Or, there are 3DS games that, in their pure forms, are encrypted and you have to download a zip file program that un-encrypts the 3DS games to make them playable. Or, the really weird one is that a lot of DC ROMS aren't "self bootable", whatever that means, and so, in order to play them on a real DC, or even an Emulator, you either had to use a CD called the UTopia Boot Disc, or you had to make them self bootable. I remember having to go through all sorts of weird and tedious steps to do it, including downloading all sorts of weird zip file programs, and even installing software such as Daemon Tools Lite, and Disc Juggler, etc so I could mount the rom as a Virtual CD, copy it's contents into a folder, do some weird Command Line stuff, and then use Disc Juggler to re compile those altered files into a new ROM, and then discard the old one etc. I can't even remember what I did back then to make it all work, but it was a MAJOR pain in my ass, and I don't know if I'd have the patience to do all of that again. LUL. So, my question pretty much boils down to this: If I ever end up with ROMS that have any of the above again, then can I just import them as is into LB and have LB automatically take care of all of that for me, or will I still need to download all of those weirdo tools, and go through all of those dumb and tedious steps to take care of all of that BEFORE importing them into LB?

3. For the Retro games such as NES, SNES, Genesis, N64, etc that are zipped and DO work in emulators such as RA without being un-zipped first, then which way is better? Un-zip them anyway or leave them zipped to save a minuscule amount of space? Does it matter? Will they run any differently or worse if I leave them zipped? I want to be as purist and accurate as possible so I always go for pure 100% authentic rips, no intro, un-headered, correct/original format etc. Lots of people tell me that if an emulator plays a ROM zipped, then un-zipping it is foolish, and a waste of space and most importantly, time.

4. Why can older Retro games be played zipped, yet newer ones such as PSONE, PS2, GC, Wii, etc can't?

5. Why aren't the programs in the Third Party folder up to date? I noticed that if I click on any of them and run them by themselves from within the folder, most of them ask to be updated to the latest version, but if I click on it, it just takes me to a page to download the main installer which obviously won't update the actual versions within the folder. I'll just have an installed version of the up to date program. So my question is, why doesn't LB update those programs when LB itself updates to new releases or even have it's own updating system for those programs to make sure they are always up to date?

6. And finally, I noticed that it's possible to update RA from within LB, but I also noticed that even if it is already up to date, if I click on it, it will still go through the process of manually downloading and then installing the updated version. My question is this: Is there any way to have it simply check for updates first or at the very least stop me from updating if I click on it when RA is already at the latest version and tell me something along the lines of "RA is already at the latest version" etc? Or, even have an auto updater that will just automatically update RA for me in the background like LB does for itself? The reason I ask is because one thing I don't like about RA is that it has no auto update feature for the program, or to manually update it from within the program, nor does it even have an option to check for newer releases, so I have to manually check the website every so often to see if I need to update or not, and then if I do, I have to download the entire program, and then install it over the previous one. I was hoping the RA updater within LB would eliminate that need for me but I guess not as it will still download and install the latest RA no matter if the currently installed version is still at the latest version, or not. Also, I noticed that using LB's RA updater seems slower to me than manually downloading the program from the official site and then installing it myself. Or, is that in my head?

Edited April 14, 2022 by Christopher James Neff

[Lordmonkus]

1. It depends, you do not need to unzip them if the zip file contains a single file or the file required to be loaded in the emulator is the first file alphabetically in the zip file.

2. Do not download ECM files unless you want to deal with unECMing them. Look for better disk dumps from reputable dumping groups such as Redump or DarkWater.

3. It's up to you, whatever works best for you. There is zero difference in how they play. Personally none of my games are zipped other than Mame which requires them to be zipped.

4. The newer systems you listed are all CD / disc based and are a different format. The emu devs decide what file formats are supported.

5. Do they need to be updated to function correctly ? Usually not.

6. LB doesn't have a way of comparing files to know if it is up to date or not so it downloads it all anyways. You can always use the undated built into RA on its own.

[ChristopherNeff]

For number 1. I was referring to when it's like a PSONE ROM that is Bin and Cue files and a lot of them even have Track Files. I always Un-Zip them using 7-Zip, put them into a folder and then import the entire folder into LB and it works perfectly. Recently, I noticed that LB has it's own portable/stand alone version of 7-Zip in the Third Party folder, so then I started wondering if I was wasting my time doing extra unnecessary steps all this time, and started thinking that maybe LB would just automatically extract those files from the ZIP, 7Z, or RAR and put them into the Games folder for me during the import process. Not a temporary extract, but a permanent one that it would do as part of the import process when adding those games into LB for the first time. How about ISO games? Can those stay compressed, AKA 7Z, RAR etc?

For number 2. Are ROMS that have those weird compressions usually mean they are old dumps and bad? So, good ones don't have all of that extra stuff attached to them? What about 3DS? What's better? Get the encrypted ones and then decrypt them myself, or try and get ones that are already decrypted? And as for the non self bootable DC games, am I still stuck having to make them self bootable or use the UTopia Boot Disc, or are there DC ROMS out there that are already self bootable out of the gate?

For number 3. If it doesn't matter, then why do you bother extracting all of yours? Why not just leave them zipped? The saved space might be small for each individual ROM, but it builds up over time. Also, you're sure that I don't need to extract them for any sort of purist/originality/accuracy reasons?

For number 4. The Emu Devs COULD be making them all be compatible with compressed files if they really wanted to all this time? Then why don't they for newer games and CD based games?

For number 5. It's actually not about functioning correctly. It's about 2 things. One is that newer versions will always have new features that do cool things for you and will be faster. Like a newer version of DOSBox or ScummVM, as an example might play games with better performance and FPS than an outdated one. Two, and this is the most important one, when you leave any program out of date, no matter what it is, you put people's PC's at risk with potential security holes that can open up gateways, and back doors to malware, viruses, and hacks etc. Any program you have on your PC, regardless of whether it is installed, or a Zip file/Stand Alone/Portable MUST be kept up to date at all times to ensure that all vulnerabilities are patched out, or else get rid of it/don't install or download it.

For number 6. RA actually doesn't have it's own updater. It has updaters for the components, Assets, and Cores within RA, but not for the actual program itself. As it stands, the only way to check for updates and to update it if needed is to manually go to their website and go the downloads page to see what version they are at, and if you notice it is newer than the one you currently have, you have to download the entire program, and then you have to install it over the existing installation on your PC. That is why I was hoping that the RA Updater within LB would somehow be able to crawl their site to check for new versions against the currently installed one on your PC so I could check within LB and not have to go to their site each time.

 

[neil9000]

3 hours ago, Christopher James Neff said:

For number 1. I was referring to when it's like a PSONE ROM that is Bin and Cue files and a lot of them even have Track Files. I always Un-Zip them using 7-Zip, put them into a folder and then import the entire folder into LB and it works perfectly. Recently, I noticed that LB has it's own portable/stand alone version of 7-Zip in the Third Party folder, so then I started wondering if I was wasting my time doing extra unnecessary steps all this time, and started thinking that maybe LB would just automatically extract those files from the ZIP, 7Z, or RAR and put them into the Games folder for me during the import process. Not a temporary extract, but a permanent one that it would do as part of the import process when adding those games into LB for the first time. How about ISO games? Can those stay compressed, AKA 7Z, RAR etc?

For number 2. Are ROMS that have those weird compressions usually mean they are old dumps and bad? So, good ones don't have all of that extra stuff attached to them? What about 3DS? What's better? Get the encrypted ones and then decrypt them myself, or try and get ones that are already decrypted? And as for the non self bootable DC games, am I still stuck having to make them self bootable or use the UTopia Boot Disc, or are there DC ROMS out there that are already self bootable out of the gate?

For number 3. If it doesn't matter, then why do you bother extracting all of yours? Why not just leave them zipped? The saved space might be small for each individual ROM, but it builds up over time. Also, you're sure that I don't need to extract them for any sort of purist/originality/accuracy reasons?

For number 4. The Emu Devs COULD be making them all be compatible with compressed files if they really wanted to all this time? Then why don't they for newer games and CD based games?

For number 5. It's actually not about functioning correctly. It's about 2 things. One is that newer versions will always have new features that do cool things for you and will be faster. Like a newer version of DOSBox or ScummVM, as an example might play games with better performance and FPS than an outdated one. Two, and this is the most important one, when you leave any program out of date, no matter what it is, you put people's PC's at risk with potential security holes that can open up gateways, and back doors to malware, viruses, and hacks etc. Any program you have on your PC, regardless of whether it is installed, or a Zip file/Stand Alone/Portable MUST be kept up to date at all times to ensure that all vulnerabilities are patched out, or else get rid of it/don't install or download it.

For number 6. RA actually doesn't have it's own updater. It has updaters for the components, Assets, and Cores within RA, but not for the actual program itself. As it stands, the only way to check for updates and to update it if needed is to manually go to their website and go the downloads page to see what version they are at, and if you notice it is newer than the one you currently have, you have to download the entire program, and then you have to install it over the existing installation on your PC. That is why I was hoping that the RA Updater within LB would somehow be able to crawl their site to check for new versions against the currently installed one on your PC so I could check within LB and not have to go to their site each time.

 

1. That 7zip has always been there and is used for systems that have zipped roms but the emulator requires them unzipped, it is a option in the UI whether or not to extract zips before passing to the emulator, but as @Lordmonkus said, this will not work with zips that have more than one file in it, as Launchbox will not know which specific file the emulator needs. I am with Lordmunkus here in that the only roms i have zipped are MAME, cause they have to be, cart roms are not worth zipping as you are not saving any space, and for CD/DVD systems i use the compressed single file formats that can be loaded directly like CHD/CSO/GCZ etc.

2, Yes ECM is not a good format and outdated, as stated you will need to trawl the web for a program to "UNecm" them back to cue/bin files. As for 3DS that's up to you, but as you stated the encrypted ones will need unencrypting first to work in a emulator, encrypted roms are for actual hacked 3DS hardware.

3. Because why wait for something to unzip that doesn't need zipping in the first place? and the bigger the files get the longer they take to unzip, and as i already said, you really are not saving any space by keeping them zipped, maybe 200-300mb for a entire GBA romset for example. And yes there is zero difference between a zipped and unzipped rom.

4. I guess, but do you really want to wait 30 minutes while RPCS3 unzips a 50GB rom file before you can play it? i for sure dont, same with Wii U, so those formats use a folder style of of rom so that all files are readily available, just like they would be on the disc on real hardware.

5. Those programs are updated, but not for every release. You have to remember we do not make those programs, and bugs in them can easily happen, so why update for the sake of it when what you already have you know for sure works correctly? You are always taking a risk when updating software that a new bug creeps in that effects functionality, why risk a third party program breaking Launchbox/Bigbox when there is no reason to do so?

3 hours ago, Christopher James Neff said:

Any program you have on your PC, regardless of whether it is installed, or a Zip file/Stand Alone/Portable MUST be kept up to date at all times

Your opinion, but i completely disagree. Windows itself, sure, but programs like VLC, DOSbox, scummVM do not have deep level access to your system like that and are not a risk or entry point for virus and malware.

3 hours ago, Christopher James Neff said:

For number 6. RA actually doesn't have it's own updater. It has updaters for the components, Assets, and Cores within RA, but not for the actual program itself. As it stands, the only way to check for updates and to update it if needed is to manually go to their website and go the downloads page to see what version they are at, and if you notice it is newer than the one you currently have, you have to download the entire program,

Only true if you use the main website for the download rather than the buildbot, the buildbot allows you to just download the new .exe file and replace the one you have, sometimes you also need to add the redistributable file as well as new DLL files are added, Launchbox has no way to know if this file is needed for a release, so its better/easier to download the full package again.

 

3 hours ago, Christopher James Neff said:

That is why I was hoping that the RA Updater within LB would somehow be able to crawl their site to check for new versions against the currently installed one on your PC so I could check within LB and not have to go to their site each time.

You have a choice, manually updating from the website, or auto updating through Launchbox both have pro's and cons, which you use is completely up to you. Downloading the new .exe from the buildbot takes like 10 seconds, as does just clicking the button in Launchbox. Its also worth noting, like point 5, that you do not HAVE to update Retroarch at all, people are still happily using versions that are into the years old at this point, again, if it's not broke, don't fix it mentality.

[ChristopherNeff]

39 minutes ago, neil9000 said:

1. That 7zip has always been there and is used for systems that have zipped roms but the emulator requires them unzipped, it is a option in the UI whether or not to extract zips before passing to the emulator, but as @Lordmonkus said, this will not work with zips that have more than one file in it, as Launchbox will not know which specific file the emulator needs. I am with Lordmunkus here in that the only roms i have zipped are MAME, cause they have to be, cart roms are not worth zipping as you are not saving any space, and for CD/DVD systems i use the compressed single file formats that can be loaded directly like CHD/CSO/GCZ etc.

2, Yes ECM is not a good format and outdated, as stated you will need to trawl the web for a program to "UNecm" them back to cue/bin files. As for 3DS that's up to you, but as you stated the encrypted ones will need unencrypting first to work in a emulator, encrypted roms are for actual hacked 3DS hardware.

3. Because why wait for something to unzip that doesn't need zipping in the first place? and the bigger the files get the longer they take to unzip, and as i already said, you really are not saving any space by keeping them zipped, maybe 200-300mb for a entire GBA romset for example. And yes there is zero difference between a zipped and unzipped rom.

4. I guess, but do you really want to wait 30 minutes while RPCS3 unzips a 50GB rom file before you can play it? i for sure dont, same with Wii U, so those formats use a folder style of of rom so that all files are readily available, just like they would be on the disc on real hardware.

5. Those programs are updated, but not for every release. You have to remember we do not make those programs, and bugs in them can easily happen, so why update for the sake of it when what you already have you know for sure works correctly? You are always taking a risk when updating software that a new bug creeps in that effects functionality, why risk a third party program breaking Launchbox/Bigbox when there is no reason to do so?

Your opinion, but i completely disagree. Windows itself, sure, but programs like VLC, DOSbox, scummVM do not have deep level access to your system like that and are not a risk or entry point for virus and malware.

Only true if you use the main website for the download rather than the buildbot, the buildbot allows you to just download the new .exe file and replace the one you have, sometimes you also need to add the redistributable file as well as new DLL files are added, Launchbox has no way to know if this file is needed for a release, so its better/easier to download the full package again.

 

You have a choice, manually updating from the website, or auto updating through Launchbox both have pro's and cons, which you use is completely up to you. Downloading the new .exe from the buildbot takes like 10 seconds, as does just clicking the button in Launchbox. Its also worth noting, like point 5, that you do not HAVE to update Retroarch at all, people are still happily using versions that are into the years old at this point, again, if it's not broke, don't fix it mentality.

1. LB doesn't have any way of actually extracting files during the actual import process to put it in the games folder? Like say you have a BIN and CUE file that is in a RAR format, and go to import that into LB, LB can't extract that RAR file for me, take all of the files within it and then add them to the LB Games Folder like it does for NON-Zipped/RAR'd files?

3. Actually, all the ROMS I get are already zipped, so wouldn't it be faster to just keep them zipped, and not bother unzipping them since they already come like that? I'm not zipping them myself. That's just how they are.

4. Wait, the emulators extract those files when I go to play them? Are you sure? Because, whenever I play a zipped game in RA for example, the games are STILL zipped when I am done playing. They're not extracted or anything. If I go into the folder right now where they are all stored, they are all zipped. So I guess RA must just play them directly without unpacking them first somehow?

5. So it's not automatically dangerous to not have every single program up to date? Cuz I heard of people getting hacked through outdated Adobe Flash, and Java and Adobe Reader back in the day etc.

"Only true if you use the main website for the download rather than the buildbot"

Can you explain that part please? What is a Build Bot and how do I use it? Is it some fan made, third party tool that automatically updates RA for me in the back ground without manual input?

"You have a choice, manually updating from the website, or auto updating through Launchbox both have pro's and cons,"

Wait, auto updating? Last time I checked, I had to manually click the update RA button in LB's menu. So, you're saying there is a way to have LB just automatically update RA for me in the background without manual input? If so, how do I set that up?

"Downloading the new .exe from the buildbot takes like 10 seconds, as does just clicking the button in Launchbox."

Huh, that's weird cuz for me, it seems slower to update RA through LB then just doing it directly via RA's site unless I'm just imagining it.

"Its also worth noting, like point 5, that you do not HAVE to update Retroarch at all, people are still happily using versions that are into the years old at this point, again, if it's not broke, don't fix it mentality."

That's not true when it comes to Emulators and Games though. You always want to be using the latest versions of Emulators for 4 reasons. Added Features and Support, Bug Fixes, Improved Speed/FPS, and increased Accuracy of original console emulation, and the only way to have access to the latest cores I believe is to also keep RA itself up to date.

I only use Cycle Accurate Emulators and so they need to be always up to date to make sure that my experience is as accurate, authentic, and true to the original hardware and games as possible.

I also want access to all the latest shaders, overlays and cheats etc.

This is also why you need to always be using the latest versions of PC Games, and Graphics Drivers from Nvidia or AMD as well.

" if it's not broke, don't fix it"

What about LB itself? Why even keep it up to date then? Wouldn't that same rule also apply there as well? Just shut off the auto updater on it and never ever update it?

Edited April 14, 2022 by Christopher James Neff

[C-Beats]

1. LaunchBox CAN extract archives with any number of files in them, but if the archive contains more than one file we just basically grab one at random to pass to the emulator before launch. A game is NEVER extracted to the games folder though, it's extracted to a temp folder that is destroyed when you close LaunchBox. Because of this you only really should be passing LaunchBox archives with a single file in it, because those are the only ones that are guaranteed to work 100% of the time. We do not EVER unarchive an archive file on import because we assume if you passed us them, you want to keep them in that format (or you'd just have extracted them before you imported them).

3. What you're asking is "Isn't it faster to unzip my file several times instead of once?" and the answer that will always be no. Truth of the matter is for ANY cart based system leaving the rom zipped typically is a waste of time since you're increasing the load times (since even if the emulator can read the encryption data without the need to completely unarchive it, it still has to perform the decryption in memory which of course takes extra CPU cycles thus increasing the load time). For most of the systems the space saved by todays standards is beyond minimal, and should LaunchBox or the emulator actually have to extract the archive to disk before running you're actually shortening the lifetime of your hard drive (though I admit not by a TON). The reason you typically find the files zipped is simply because it takes less net bandwidth which helps those will slow or metered net connections

4. There are several ways to extract an archive and several places to do it. Some emulators can read the archive (depending on the format) raw and extract them in memory, others require doing it to disk. When they do it to disk it will almost NEVER be to the same location the original archive was. They typically have their own temporary location they extract to (as does LaunchBox) that they can then clean up when the process is done. Extracting to the same folder the archive is in could lead to a whole lot of potential issues and so it just isn't done that way in most cases. Long story short, just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't happening.

5. Any update regardless of when or how you get it has the potential for danger. Much like any day you walk outside you could potentially be struck by lightening. You definitely want to vet your sources before downloading anything but if the source is trusted, then typically the updates are safe. Bleeding edge and beta updates to software have a much larger risk though typically not in the malware sense, but in that it potentially breaks or only half works on your installation. Most of the stories of old regarding people getting hacked by updates are because they fell for a phishing scam and "updated" their software with an infected file they didn't ACTUALLY get from the trusted source.

Other Random Questions:
Build bot is an automated tool used by software developers that automatically builds a release application when they push a code change. It just builds the app and then makes it available with the single press of a button instead of them manually deploying all 15+ versions of the thing when they update versions.

When importing I believe there is a checkbox to download out of date cores. Fairly certain you manually have to tell us to grab the latest RetroArch proper though. I admit Jason did most of the work on that feature though so I could be wrong on this point.

Just since we are getting to more detailed responses before I answer the questions about updating RetroArch I want to make one thing clear. RetroArch is NOT an emulator. RetroArch is a compatibility layer to make emulation across the libretro cores consistent. The core itself is the emulator, because of this you can get away sometimes with updating a core and NOT RetroArch. This is not typically true of stand alone emulators. So you CAN have the most up to date emulator and settings for that emulator but still have an older version of RetroArch itself (assuming the emulator didn't NEED a newer feature set of RetroArch to make it happen, which typically it doesn't).

Regarding the whole don't update LB or any other software bit, essentially yes that what's he's saying. You don't HAVE to. You can stay on an older version if the newer version doesn't have a feature you want or doesn't correct anything you've found wrong in an older version. Some people would simply prefer not to bother as sometimes updating can be a pain, or introduce new issues where there currently are none. It's a decision everyone has to make for themselves, but both options are valid. I have the option to be on Windows 11 (an "upgrade" from 10) and I won't be making that leap until I absolutely need to, because frankly it can only cause MORE issues than I have now with Win10. The more experienced you get with the tech, the more the terms "upgrade" and "update" typically lose their allure, so you'll see a lot of people with more experience under their belt be far more selective of which update/upgrade they apply or not.

[fraganator]

To add a little more info on how LaunchBox handles extracting and file parsing zip, 7z, and rar files.

If the emulator or emulator platform has the "Extract ROMs" option checked, the compressed file (zip, 7z, or rar only) will be extracted to LaunchBox\ThirdParty\7-Zip\Temp when the game is launched. This temp folder is cleared when the emulator exits.

LaunchBox has some rules when selecting which file from the zipped ROM to pass to the emulator. It will look for a file with a certain extension, in the order mds, gdi, cue, or a file named eboot.bin (there may be other file types, but these are the ones I'm aware of). So playing a zipped ROM containing cue+bin files will always select the cue file (not the first file or a random file). If no file match is found, I believe it selects the last file in the archive. This simple file checking covers many zipped disc based ROMs (at least for Redump sets), regardless of how many files are in the archive. You will start to run into issues with some formats such as zipped MSU-MD games (which contain a mix of formats), where LaunchBox wants to launch to cue file, but the emulator needs the md file.

 

 

[ChristopherNeff]

9 hours ago, C-Beats said:

1. LaunchBox CAN extract archives with any number of files in them, but if the archive contains more than one file we just basically grab one at random to pass to the emulator before launch. A game is NEVER extracted to the games folder though, it's extracted to a temp folder that is destroyed when you close LaunchBox. Because of this you only really should be passing LaunchBox archives with a single file in it, because those are the only ones that are guaranteed to work 100% of the time. We do not EVER unarchive an archive file on import because we assume if you passed us them, you want to keep them in that format (or you'd just have extracted them before you imported them).

3. What you're asking is "Isn't it faster to unzip my file several times instead of once?" and the answer that will always be no. Truth of the matter is for ANY cart based system leaving the rom zipped typically is a waste of time since you're increasing the load times (since even if the emulator can read the encryption data without the need to completely unarchive it, it still has to perform the decryption in memory which of course takes extra CPU cycles thus increasing the load time). For most of the systems the space saved by todays standards is beyond minimal, and should LaunchBox or the emulator actually have to extract the archive to disk before running you're actually shortening the lifetime of your hard drive (though I admit not by a TON). The reason you typically find the files zipped is simply because it takes less net bandwidth which helps those will slow or metered net connections

4. There are several ways to extract an archive and several places to do it. Some emulators can read the archive (depending on the format) raw and extract them in memory, others require doing it to disk. When they do it to disk it will almost NEVER be to the same location the original archive was. They typically have their own temporary location they extract to (as does LaunchBox) that they can then clean up when the process is done. Extracting to the same folder the archive is in could lead to a whole lot of potential issues and so it just isn't done that way in most cases. Long story short, just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't happening.

5. Any update regardless of when or how you get it has the potential for danger. Much like any day you walk outside you could potentially be struck by lightening. You definitely want to vet your sources before downloading anything but if the source is trusted, then typically the updates are safe. Bleeding edge and beta updates to software have a much larger risk though typically not in the malware sense, but in that it potentially breaks or only half works on your installation. Most of the stories of old regarding people getting hacked by updates are because they fell for a phishing scam and "updated" their software with an infected file they didn't ACTUALLY get from the trusted source.

Other Random Questions:
Build bot is an automated tool used by software developers that automatically builds a release application when they push a code change. It just builds the app and then makes it available with the single press of a button instead of them manually deploying all 15+ versions of the thing when they update versions.

When importing I believe there is a checkbox to download out of date cores. Fairly certain you manually have to tell us to grab the latest RetroArch proper though. I admit Jason did most of the work on that feature though so I could be wrong on this point.

Just since we are getting to more detailed responses before I answer the questions about updating RetroArch I want to make one thing clear. RetroArch is NOT an emulator. RetroArch is a compatibility layer to make emulation across the libretro cores consistent. The core itself is the emulator, because of this you can get away sometimes with updating a core and NOT RetroArch. This is not typically true of stand alone emulators. So you CAN have the most up to date emulator and settings for that emulator but still have an older version of RetroArch itself (assuming the emulator didn't NEED a newer feature set of RetroArch to make it happen, which typically it doesn't).

Regarding the whole don't update LB or any other software bit, essentially yes that what's he's saying. You don't HAVE to. You can stay on an older version if the newer version doesn't have a feature you want or doesn't correct anything you've found wrong in an older version. Some people would simply prefer not to bother as sometimes updating can be a pain, or introduce new issues where there currently are none. It's a decision everyone has to make for themselves, but both options are valid. I have the option to be on Windows 11 (an "upgrade" from 10) and I won't be making that leap until I absolutely need to, because frankly it can only cause MORE issues than I have now with Win10. The more experienced you get with the tech, the more the terms "upgrade" and "update" typically lose their allure, so you'll see a lot of people with more experience under their belt be far more selective of which update/upgrade they apply or not.

1. Oh, so that's all temporary? So, I need to continue doing it the way I've been doing it then? Namely, what I do is when I have a game that is a BIN and CUE file and especially with Track files, I will extract the archive, and then I will import ONLY the CUE file into LB, then I will manually add the other files into the Games Folder of LB afterwards, so that way LB remains clean and doesn't import unnecessary files into it's database, but the game will still play because the folder still has all of the required files. I hope that made sense. I was hoping that maybe LB made that more streamlined with the latest version and would literally do all of that for me. Just trying to be lazier than I already am! LUL

3. Wait, so the Emulators and RA temporarily extracts the files into a Temp folder every single time I load a zipped game into an Emulator and RA? So, if I manually unzipped the files myself, the games will actually load faster in RA and the Emulators? Huh, you know, the games load pretty much instantly for me anyway, probably because I have everything on an SSD, including Windows. So, not sure if I'd notice the speed improvement one way or the other. Then again, perhaps that is the reason why RA flickers to the Desktop for a few seconds when launching a game when transitioning from RA to the Core and game.

4. So, even for big files such as ISO's and other archives that only have a single file, even though LB CAN import them without a problem, should I STILL extract them manually beforehand? I know you were saying that cart games can be unzipped without taking HDD space, but how about larger files for newer consoles and CD based games? Should I extract them too? Will they also load faster if I extract them and load them directly?

5. "Most of the stories of old regarding people getting hacked by updates are because they fell for a phishing scam and "updated" their software with an infected file they didn't ACTUALLY get from the trusted source."

I actually wasn't referring to people who get fooled into downloading fake updates and getting their downloads from bad sources. I was referring to stories of people who supposedly got hacked and/or got viruses and malware simply because they DIDN'T update out of date programs at all and just left them out of date. Apparently, people who didn't always keep their Adobe Flash, Adobe Reader and Java up to date at all times were at risk for malicious exploits and back doors on their PC.

IDK. It just seems that not keeping every single thing up to date at all times is seen as the ultimate sin and foolishness by most PC people on the internet and forums for some reason.

6. How do I set up Build Bot to automatically check for and download RA updates for me in the background?

7. So if RA is just a front end and not the actual Emulator itself and you can run the latest Cores on an older RA, then what do you actually get for updating RA? Because everyone at RA seems adamant that we keep it up to date at all times, even going so far as to call people foolish for sticking to an older version, so IDK.

I have a few questions for @neil9000

When you said that we don't always have to keep everything up to date at all times, I have a few questions if that is alright.

1. How about Windows itself? Right now, I have it set up so Windows automatically downloads and installs all updates and then tells me when to restart. Should I change anything about that? Does Windows need to constantly be up to date at all times? Should I install only the important updates, or the recommended ones and optional ones as well?  How about the check for other product updates from Microsoft Update? Should I have that checked or unchecked?

2. Do I need to constantly make sure the actual BIOS Firmware of my Motherboard itself is constantly up to date as well? Do I HAVE to flash the new version each time a new version is released?

3. How about Drivers? Everyone always seems to make a HUGE deal about how important it is to always keep them up to date. Do I need to? Right now, I have a third party program installed called IOBit's Driver Booster which checks for any driver updates, downloads, and installs them for me and then asks me to reboot.

4. Should I jump to Windows 11 yet, or wait? I'm not even sure my hardware is compatible with Windows 11. Do I need to run out and start upgrading stuff in my PC to make it compatible? Or, should I go the whole opposite of the extremes that some people are doing and just install Windows 7 and stay there forever? Considering that most people still regard it as the "Golden OS".

Edited April 14, 2022 by Christopher James Neff

[Lordmonkus]

21 hours ago, Christopher James Neff said:

1. How about Windows itself? Right now, I have it set up so Windows automatically downloads and installs all updates and then tells me when to restart. Should I change anything about that? Does Windows need to constantly be up to date at all times? Should I install only the important updates, or the recommended ones and optional ones as well?  How about the check for other product updates from Microsoft Update? Should I have that checked or unchecked?

You should keep Windows up to date for security reasons.

21 hours ago, Christopher James Neff said:

2. Do I need to constantly make sure the actual BIOS Firmware of my Motherboard itself is constantly up to date as well? Do I HAVE to flash the new version each time a new version is released?

No.

21 hours ago, Christopher James Neff said:

3. How about Drivers? Everyone always seems to make a HUGE deal about how important it is to always keep them up to date. Do I need to? Right now, I have a third party program installed called IOBit's Driver Booster which checks for any driver updates, downloads, and installs them for me and then asks me to reboot.

The only drivers that should really be kept somewhat up to date is video drivers and even then you don't have  oto.

21 hours ago, Christopher James Neff said:

4. Should I jump to Windows 11 yet, or wait? I'm not even sure my hardware is compatible with Windows 11. Do I need to run out and start upgrading stuff in my PC to make it compatible? Or, should I go the whole opposite of the extremes that some people are doing and just install Windows 7 and stay there forever? Considering that most people still regard it as the "Golden OS"

I wouldn't update to Windows 11 yet. I am on 10 and it works great. Staying on an OS forever is just silly, it eventually will be outdated and unsupported. You should be on the OS that best suits your needs and hardware.

[ChristopherNeff]

Should I get rid of that third party driver updating program then? The IOBit's Driver Booster?

For Windows, when you say keep it up to date, does that include all of the Optional, and Recommended updates as well along with the Other Product Updates from Microsoft Update or only the ones under the Important Section, AKA Security Updates?

Wait, I don't have to keep even Graphics Card Drivers up to date constantly? I thought each update made games performance, and FPS better each time. Also bug fixes. For some reason, graphics drivers are the thing everyone makes the biggest deal about.

What about Wifi drivers? If I update them all the time, will my internet go faster?

Edited April 15, 2022 by Christopher James Neff

[Lordmonkus]

13 minutes ago, Christopher James Neff said:

Should I get rid of that third party driver updating program then? The IOBit's Driver Booster?

I can't tell you if you should or shouldn't keep it, I have never used it or anything like it personally.

14 minutes ago, Christopher James Neff said:

For Windows, when you say keep it up to date, does that include all of the Optional, and Recommended updates as well along with the Other Product Updates from Microsoft Update or only the ones under the Important Section, AKA Security Updates?

I just let Windows update when it wants to. It will push urgent security updates.

15 minutes ago, Christopher James Neff said:

Wait, I don't have to keep even Graphics Card Drivers up to date constantly? I thought each update made games performance, and FPS better each time. Also bug fixes. For some reason, graphics drivers are the thing everyone makes the biggest deal about.

Updated drivers can make new games that just came out work better but it certainly won't make every game perform better and definitely won't fix any bugs with the games. The only bug fixes that would happen would be driver bugs. I keep my video drivers fairly up to date but I do not lose any sleep if I let them slide for a couple of months or so.

17 minutes ago, Christopher James Neff said:

What about Wifi drivers? If I update them all the time, will my internet go faster?

No. 

[ChristopherNeff]

41 minutes ago, Lordmonkus said:

I can't tell you if you should or shouldn't keep it, I have never used it or anything like it personally.

That program I use is part of a larger program called IOBit's Advanced System Care. I saw it recommended in your how to make LB faster thread that also recommends the K-Lite Codec Pack and also Black Viper's Scripts to make Windows faster etc.

41 minutes ago, Lordmonkus said:

I just let Windows update when it wants to. It will push urgent security updates.

So, you just keep the Windows Update settings at default? You don't go out of your way to manually turn on all of the Recommended, Optional and Microsoft Product Updates? AKA, what I consider the "extras".

41 minutes ago, Lordmonkus said:

Updated drivers can make new games that just came out work better but it certainly won't make every game perform better and definitely won't fix any bugs with the games. The only bug fixes that would happen would be driver bugs. I keep my video drivers fairly up to date but I do not lose any sleep if I let them slide for a couple of months or so.

How do you update your graphics drivers? Do you just check the website every now and then or do you have GeForce Experience installed and running in the background that tells you when a new driver update is available?

Also, I don't actually play PC games at all. My PC is used exclusively for Emulation of consoles and handhelds and arcade. RA, LB etc. How important are GPU driver updates for Emulation?

45 minutes ago, Lordmonkus said:

No.

Lastly, should I still install the manufacturer drivers for each component and USB device I plug in when I first get a new device or install Windows for the first time, or just let Windows take care of all of the drivers for everything from it's own Windows Update? AKA, Motherboard, Video Card, USB Wifi Adapter, USB Bluetooth Adapter, SSD, Gaming Mouse and Keyboard etc.

 

P.S. I just figured out how to individually quote parts of replies, comments and threads, so it should look better now rather than just use the " to quote things like I've been doing up until now.

[Lordmonkus]

5 minutes ago, Christopher James Neff said:

That program I use is part of a larger program called IOBit's Advanced System Care. I saw it recommended in your how to make LB faster thread that also recommends the K-Lite Codec Pack and also Black Viper's Scripts to make Windows faster etc.

Ah yes, I remember that was recommended in that guide now. I added it since it was suggested by Brad at the time when I wrote the guide. I have never used it personally though but I would trust Brads word on it.

7 minutes ago, Christopher James Neff said:

So, you just keep the Windows Update settings at default?

Correct.

7 minutes ago, Christopher James Neff said:

How do you update your graphics drivers?

Every so often I run NVCleanInstall to update my drivers and remove all the telemetry crap as well as GeForce Experience. I have had more issues with GeForce Experience than good experiences with it.

8 minutes ago, Christopher James Neff said:

How important are GPU driver updates for Emulation?

Not important at all.

9 minutes ago, Christopher James Neff said:

Lastly, should I still install the manufacturer drivers for each component and USB device I plug in when I first get a new device or install Windows for the first time, or just let Windows take care of all of the drivers for everything from it's own Windows Update? AKA, Motherboard, Video Card, USB Wifi Adapter, USB Bluetooth Adapter, SSD, Gaming Mouse and Keyboard etc.

I just let Windows do it and if there are problems then I would go looking for a better driver but I haven't had an issue with a Windows driver for anything in a very long time.

[ChristopherNeff]

20 minutes ago, Lordmonkus said:

and remove all the telemetry crap

Is it important to remove telemetry stuff? Will it make performance better on my PC? I don't care about privacy at all since I don't have anything to hide so they can look at whatever they want so long as it doesn't inconvenience me in anyway. In fact, How To Geek said they don't recommend turning off Telemetry on Windows 10 because it can permanently mess things up over time and that all of the programs out there are crap. AKA, Destroy Windows Spying, O&O Shutup 10, Spybot's Anti Beacon (especially now that it locks some of the telemetry blocking features behind a paywall, so screw them), etc.

20 minutes ago, Lordmonkus said:

Not important at all.

Wait, really? Not even if I had drivers from years ago? So it won't make any emulators or the games they play perform better or faster with the latest update? I ask because some shaders make RA slow and hiccup and I want it full speed and smooth at all times.

20 minutes ago, Lordmonkus said:

I just let Windows do it and if there are problems then I would go looking for a better driver but I haven't had an issue with a Windows driver for anything in a very long time.

So you don't even install the motherboard drivers on a new install? Such as INF Update Utility, Intel Management Engine Components, Intel Rapid Storage Technology, Intel HD Graphics Driver, Realtek HD Audio Driver, Realtek LAN Driver etc?

What about your GPU drivers? Do you let Windows install those too? You don't get the real drivers from Nvidia which comes with Nvidia Graphics Driver, Nvidia HD Audio Driver, and Nvidia Physx System Software, etc?

Edited April 15, 2022 by Christopher James Neff

[Lordmonkus]

16 minutes ago, Christopher James Neff said:

Is it important to remove telemetry stuff?

Nope, not important all just personal preference.

17 minutes ago, Christopher James Neff said:

Wait, really? Not even if I had drivers from years ago? So it won't make any emulators or the games they play perform better or faster with the latest update? I ask because some shaders make RA slow and hiccup and I want it full speed and smooth at all times.

I wouldn't necessarily run drivers that are years out of date but it's not a big deal if they are several months out of date. 

18 minutes ago, Christopher James Neff said:

I ask because some shaders make RA slow and hiccup and I want it full speed and smooth at all times.

This is gonna come down to the GPU you are running and how powerful it is. Some shaders are quite heavy and will require a good video cards. Drivers will have very little impact on performance in this scenario.

19 minutes ago, Christopher James Neff said:

So you don't even install the motherboard drivers on a new install? Such as INF Update Utility, Intel Management Engine Components, Intel Rapid Storage Technology, Intel HD Graphics Driver, Realtek HD Audio Driver, Realtek LAN Driver etc?

Nope.

19 minutes ago, Christopher James Neff said:

What about your GPU drivers? Do you let Windows install those too? You don't get the real drivers from Nvidia which comes with Nvidia Graphics Driver, Nvidia HD Audio Driver, and Nvidia Physx System Software, etc?

As I already said, I use NVCleanInstall to update and install my video drivers. I only let it install the video driver and physx. I don't let it install the audio driver component since I use an external USB sound device. This really is a personal preference thing.

A lot of what you are asking really comes down to personal preference and needs at the end of the day.

[ChristopherNeff]

3 minutes ago, Lordmonkus said:

This is gonna come down to the GPU you are running and how powerful it is.

GPU: Nvidia GTX GeForce 750 TI from MSI.

CPU: Intel i7-4790K Quad Core 4.4 GHZ.

RAM: 8 GB of DDR3 from Dynet.

Not sure if any other specs or components matter. Can list them in another post if they do.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Christopher James Neff

[Lordmonkus]

7 minutes ago, Christopher James Neff said:

GPU: Nvidia GTX GeForce 750 TI from MSI.

Yeah, that's a pretty old and slow GPU by todays standards and the heavier Retroarch shaders will struggle with it.

[ChristopherNeff]

Strange that it still plays every ROM for pretty much all consoles, handheld and even arcade at full speed with most shaders. It's only a couple I found that struggle. Hell, it even plays the Arcade Gauntlet Legends and Gauntlet Dark Legacy at full speed WITH most shaders, and that is supposed to be 2 games that needs a SUPER PC to play at full speed.

Is it worth getting a whole new PC or upgrading my current one just for a shader or 2 though?

How about newer consoles? Will my GPU work fine for them? Xbox, Wii U, PS3, PS Vita, Xbox 360, PS4, Xbox One, Switch, Xbox X, PS5 etc?

Would it still be good for new PC games like the entire KH bundle that was released on PC not too long ago, or Steam games? Or, GOG, etc?

How about my other specs of CPU, and RAM? Are they still good enough? Is there any other specs and components that matter that I didn't list that I should have?

Edited April 15, 2022 by Christopher James Neff

[Lordmonkus]

4 minutes ago, Christopher James Neff said:

Strange that it still plays every ROM for pretty much all consoles, handheld and even arcade at full speed with most shaders. It's only a couple I found that struggle. Hell, it even plays the Arcade Gauntlet Legends and Gauntlet Dark Legacy at full speed WITH most shaders, and that is supposed to be 2 games that needs a SUPER PC to play at full speed.

Not strange at all, most of the shaders are not that demanding on GPUs but there are a couple that are. Some of them have a lot of complicated passes in them and they will strain lower end GPUs. 

5 minutes ago, Christopher James Neff said:

Is it worth getting a whole new PC or upgrading my current one just for a shader or 2 though?

No. Though if you find a cheap GTX 970 o r 1060 series card then you could think about it. No need to get an entirely new system.

7 minutes ago, Christopher James Neff said:

How about newer consoles? Will my GPU work fine for them? Xbox, Wii U, PS3, PS Vita, Xbox 360, PS4, Xbox One, Switch, Xbox X, PS5 etc?

I doubt it. Wii U, Switch and PS3 emulation are pretty demanding and every other system you mentioned either don't have an emulator or they have a barely functional emulator.

9 minutes ago, Christopher James Neff said:

Would it still be good for new PC games like the entire KH bundle that was released on PC not too long ago, or Steam games? Or, GOG, etc?

That will depend on the game and every game is different, you will have to look up each games recommended hardware.

10 minutes ago, Christopher James Neff said:

How about my other specs of CPU, and RAM? Are they still good enough? Is there any other specs and components that matter that I didn't list that I should have?

For emulation up to PS2 / Gamecube / Wii era your system is fine. I wouldn't be thinking about a new system or upgrading parts unless you decide that emulating PS3, Wii U and Switch are that important to you.

[ChristopherNeff]

3 minutes ago, Lordmonkus said:

Not strange at all, most of the shaders are not that demanding on GPUs but there are a couple that are. Some of them have a lot of complicated passes in them and they will strain lower end GPUs. 

I wonder why the Arcade Gauntlet Legends and Gauntlet Dark Legacy play at full speed though. Those are supposed to need a super PC and most 3D Arcade games like CarnEvil should struggle since MAME is made more for preservation that for actual playability. Unless they're just exaggerating. When I bought this Gaming PC 5 years ago, I picked specs specifically to play those 2 games at full speed. I guess now, even basic gaming PC's are considered super PC's for MAME requirements when it used to be the exception and something very special and rare.

7 minutes ago, Lordmonkus said:

No. Though if you find a cheap GTX 970 o r 1060 series card then you could think about it. No need to get an entirely new system.

So, used then? Is it trustworthy to get used parts? I get all my parts brand new. What would cheap be to you? I don't even know the full retail price of the parts to compare the two.

8 minutes ago, Lordmonkus said:

I doubt it. Wii U, Switch and PS3 emulation are pretty demanding and every other system you mentioned either don't have an emulator or they have a barely functional emulator.

When you say you doubt it, you mean with Shaders or just period? And are you talking about max settings on those 3 emulators or are you saying that my PC would be too weak even at mid or low settings?

9 minutes ago, Lordmonkus said:

That will depend on the game and every game is different, you will have to look up each games recommended hardware.

I actually want to get into playing at 4K and HDR at 60 FPS. I have a Samsung UHD KU7000 4K HDR TV already. As dumb as this will sound, I'm not into playing A LOT of PC games. Not yet anyway. But, I want to specifically play Kingdom Hearts at 4K and HDR at 60 FPS. I paid $700.00 for my TV and then paid $400.00 on a PS4 PRO pretty much exclusively to play Kingdom Hearts III at 4K when it first launched and it wasn't at a stable 60 FPS nor was it even in HDR which kinda pissed me off, not gonna lie, since FF XV was both 4K and HDR when it first launched. Now, they have the entire KH series on PC and it's ALL in 4K, HDR AND a stable 60 FPS, and I would be willing to either upgrade whatever I need to in my current PC, or buy a whole new PC just for those games, AGAIN! Stupid, I know. LOL Hell, maybe I'll even get a whole new TV too while I'm at it. Maybe upgrade to 8K now?

However, if I need to get a new PC, I need to find one that has a Quad Core CPU of at LEAST 4.0 GHZ, if not more. Most of them I have seen I am not impressed with. All the other specs are great, but most CPU's are more like 3.3 GHZ something, which aint gonna cut it for MAME. Since MAME uses more CPU than it does GPU, then my CPU is the only reason why the 2 Gauntlet games run at full speed. I heard that those 2 games require at least 4.0 GHZ, which is why I chose an i7 over an i5 when I first got my current Gaming PC.

18 minutes ago, Lordmonkus said:

For emulation up to PS2 / Gamecube / Wii era your system is fine. I wouldn't be thinking about a new system or upgrading parts unless you decide that emulating PS3, Wii U and Switch are that important to you.

If I upgrade my current PC or get a new one to play the KH series in 4K and HDR, will that also be good enough specs for those 3 emulators as well? PS3, Wii U and Switch that is.