Pinball Emulation? Worth it? Launchbox Compatible?

[screwball69]

Previous to now I have been a fan of Pinball Arcade and have been quite happy with their work.

I am immensely annoyed by the Williams/Balley license going to to Zen since I hate their physics and it seems unlikely PA will get new tables at this point.

I've become curious about pinball emulators such as Visual Pinball or Future Pinball, how are the physics in these and are they able to be integrated with Launchbox?

 

[twobucks]

i rencently got back into virtual pinball and setup pinball fx3 with all the bally williams tables, visual pinball, and some future pinball tables. since pinball arcade had lost the williams license and doesnt have an easy way to launch single tables i decided against purchasing.

pinball fx3 arcade physics just for the bally williams tables are pretty good. they made significant improvements to physics when they released the bally williams tables. if you have not tried the fish tales table with arcade physics, then give it a shot.

visual pinball has always been pretty good but each table can have big differences in table physics. its just a matter of finding the table version you prefer.

future pinball is good but development has stopped i think. you really have to match the right version of bam physics on a per table basis. if you have the wrong physics matched to the table then its sometimes unplayable.

 

[sundogak]

I have FP, VP, TPA, and FX3 all installed and working within Launchbox but you have to go through some hoops with most to get them working well. In most cases, it isn't LB problem but just the nature of the Pinball programs that nothing is quite as simple, particularly when it comes to mass setup. The other time suck is lack of central repository for media that makes it easy to map to your install and lack of table naming convention.  Media setup took a huge amount of time since LB DB isn't of any use for pinball. So depending on how media crazy you want to get can take some time even for something as basic as getting clear logos.  If you want to do a full on pinball setup with multiple screens (table, backglass, DMD) then LB isn't likely the best suited for such setups. I have a two monitor setup with the main screen in "desktop" mode and the second where the pinball program will allow, as a backglass and LB works fine in that use case. I was hoping LB would get some additional pinball love but based on recent threads that appears it won't happen anytime soon.  So was holding off on any sort of "how to" but may revisit since nothing is changing now. If you setup just a "curated" pinball setup things can go pretty quick but if you want a bunch of tables then it takes a lot of time to setup, particularly for FP and VP and add to that media setup time.  But the short(er) version is this in somewhat order of difficulty in setting up in LB (and in general) from easiest to most fiddly:

FX3: You have to have the cabinet mode turned on by getting a code from them. This allows you to launch to a specific table in LB or it is like TPA and won't launch to specific table.  The advantage is that with the code you don't need another program.  I have found the Williams tables in "classic" mode seem to be pretty good physics wise.  Their goal there was to replicate real tables unlike the "new" tables.  The one thing I like about FX3 is that it "just runs" without a lot of fiddling around.  I do have a back glass setup which isn't quite as fancy as FP, and VP in particular but works for my purposes.

TPA: you can integrate into LB but to allow it to launch directly to a table you have to use TPAFreeCamMod.  This also allows changing of the camera position but I only use it for its ability to let you launch a specific table in TPA from a command line.  By itself, TPA will launch in LB but just goes to the front end menu table view and not direct without the mod. Otherwise, setup is pretty straight forward.

Future Pinball + BAM:  Future Pinball as noted isn't developed anymore but BAM changes the game in that regard. BAM adds many features including lighting and physics adjustments that couldn't be done in FP and BAM is updated frequently.  With BAM, it fixes a lot of the issues with FP.  FP was the first pinball setup I did but wound up doing major revamp when I installed BAM, mostly to fix the things I ignored the first time.  For FP and VP, you have to come up with some consistent naming convention and stick with it or you will go insane with the different versions of tables and the various files needed.  Naming will also help with media later on as well.  In my case, I went with the "Table, Maker, year" name so that "The Addams Family (Bally 1992)" is what stick with for folders, table names, and the associated physics xml (if there is one). One key thing that helps here is that contrary to almost all the setup guides, you can put all you FP files for each table in an individual folder. This helps a lot with BAM and keeping track of versions since you can put the table, sounds/media (which have no logic to naming and you cannot change them easily), XML physics file, and other scripts in one folder rather than all files dumped in tables folder in flat file organization.  The big advantage with BAM is that you no longer have to have different exe files for different physics.  You just change the XML file (which is name exactly as the table and in same folder) and the physics is adjusted or you can customize it within BAM.  One problem I noted with some sets you get off the internet is that the XML physics files are not always present so the table will be "Physics 2.6" but the XML will be missing which makes for really wonky physics since most times you will setup BAM to default to 1.0 physics (FP vanilla). If your ball is sluggish or the plunger seems to not launch the ball, then double check the table physics version and likely don't have the correct XML.  I also stuck in most cases with "one version of table" setup.  I have about +750 tables but didn't setup the zillion different variations.  Where possible, I went with the most recently updated and http://www.pinsimdb.org/  is an invaluable resource both to see what the physics for the table is along with checking version.  After messing with tables for awhile found best to put a text note in the folder with the physics and version and then I could name the table to its main name and not get into "The Addams Family Ultimate 1.02" naming in LB.  A example is below:

Within LB, it will pickup name prior to the ( ).  This can be a problem with some tables since there are originals with same name as a recreated table.

There are also some tricks (using the Microsoft Compatibility Administrator tool) to use to set it up so you don't have to get the ADMIN elevation warning in Windows. FP wants admin rights which is a pain for front end like LB.  I have FP pretty much setup with almost all media except still missing a number of videos but I do have logo, backglass, and table view media for all 750ish.

VP:  I avoided VP for a long time simply because of the mess of different VP versions and table compatibility coupled with the whole VPinMAME aspects.  But took second crack after got the others above figured out.  My first thing was I decided to only go with VP X only.  Since many of the popular tables are or are being updated that seems to not have been a limitation.  VP is typically the easiest to get setup in LB since doesn't have any other programs needed and seems to play well with Windows overall (i.e., no admin like FP requiring a fix).  VP is also under continual development.  VP seems to me to be geared towards the full on pinball setup with DMD, table, and back glass setup.  For that it has lots of powerful features in particular the ability to have custom back glasses that can be lit with different flashes if setup in B2S. However, the back glass feature took a lot of time to setup in relation to FP where it was relatively quick. Of course you don't have to do a back glass so that simplifies if just want to run a table.  Getting the DMD/VPinMAME setup took me some time and you run into issues with then having to find the ROMs for the DMD in addition to the VP table. Not all tables use VPinMAME but most of the "recreations" do.  The one thing I really don't like about VP is that it is a pain to change the camera view.  Whereas in the others above you can map to your controller clicks to change the camera angle, with VP they make it an exercise.  With VPX tables you can setup "POV" files which alter the camera view but it isn't a simple "click" of button.  Also some tables come setup for a full pinball machine setup rather than desktop so it means fiddling around with the table code to "fix" it. Many of the lighting for tables is also "dark" to my eyes so again have to fiddle with table code on table by table basis to fix it since no "global" fix like you can do in FP.   I have about 425 tables and have about 100 working the way I want in LB with backglass running and DMD positioned correctly. I decided to take a break for awhile from VP before tackling the rest including media hunting. VP can also be setup by folder for each table (like screen below for Addams Family) although I found its gets fiddly if using B2S.  The one other nice thing with VP is it seems to work with the LB Pause Screen feature where as the others above have various issues. As far as physics, with FP+BAM I don't notice much of difference but then I haven't had VP up and running long enough to do cross comparison extensively. 

Anyway, hope gives some basic frame of reference on setup of each.  To a large degree, getting a table running for each in LB isn't too bad if do a small curated list of tables. 

 

Edited July 15, 2019 by sundogak

[screwball69]

Jeezez, thats much more in depth than I was expecting, its much appreciated.

I might start toying around with FP and Bam once I have all the media for my BB setup squared away.

[JoeViking245]

Personally I prefer VP over FP.  But probably because it's what I used 1st.  That, and it gives me that nostalgic feel-good feeling.  To me, FP (as well as FX2/FX3) has more of a "candy" feel/look (for lack of better words).  More-so FX2/3.  Don't get me wrong.  All 4 are great in their own rights.  With that, I do have all 4 on my cab. (upright only. no pincab.  )

I do have a couple VP9 tables because they haven't been converted to VPX.  i.e. Riverboat Gambler.  Fortunately there are some great table programmers out there so those are limited.  

Is it worth it?  Yes!! Of course!  1st off they're fun to play.  2nd, once (finally) set up they look really cool in your BigBox collection alongside everything else. ?

[dragon57]

22 hours ago, lou silver said:

This media pack I put together might save you a ton of time I spent a collective month at least compiling adding art downloading creating clear logos etc..

It's not definitive nor is it perfect  , you will have to add tables from www.pinsimdb.orgpin

Still a work in progress currently getting marquees video snaps and more google drive space to upload all 65gb compressed tables for everyone .

 

 

Thank you so much for this. I have tried getting FP installed and working in the past, but failed miserably. Your archive along with the URL of the pinsimdb site, which I didn't have in the past, should allow me more luck this time.