Emulate Apple II with Retroarch's Mame Core

[SiriusVI]

6 hours ago, Headrush69 said:

The only 2 options are to save a per game option file for every Apple II game,  or to add loading a custom Retroarch.cfg to your command line options and in that Retroarch.cfg file point to a different Retroarch-core-options.cfg. (With boot to CLI enabled)

It works but it’s a bit ugly. Unfortunately there isn’t a per directory options override.

Ah ok... what would that custom command line look like? Do you have any idea?

[JoeViking245]

Don't know about that but, for regular MAME, you can add to the command line

-ui_active

Then when the game starts, MAME will have already 'pressed Scrl_Lock' for you.

[JoeViking245]

Alternatively (again in regular MAME) you can copy the mame.ini file and paste it in MAME's ini sub-folder renaming it to "bios_file_name.ini".   In your case it looks it would be "apple2ep.ini".

Now edit it and go to the section "CORE INPUT OPTIONS" and change the value of "ui_active" from 0 (zero) to 1 (one).  Save and exit.

You'll get the same results as adding -ui_active to the command line [without having to add it].

[SiriusVI]

1 hour ago, JoeViking245 said:

Alternatively (again in regular MAME) you can copy the mame.ini file and paste it in MAME's ini sub-folder renaming it to "bios_file_name.ini".   In your case it looks it would be "apple2ep.ini".

Now edit it and go to the section "CORE INPUT OPTIONS" and change the value of "ui_active" from 0 (zero) to 1 (one).  Save and exit.

You'll get the same results as adding -ui_active to the command line [without having to add it].

This works perfectly.  Thank you so much! You just have to avoid pressing escape when the ui is active, because that will bring up the mame system GUI and I don't know how to retrun to the game once I see that.
 

Now I just need to know the command line for a custom retroarch config so I can use the latest mame core with apple2.

[sundogak]

6 hours ago, SiriusVI said:

This works perfectly.  Thank you so much! You just have to avoid pressing escape when the ui is active, because that will bring up the mame system GUI and I don't know how to retrun to the game once I see that.
 

Now I just need to know the command line for a custom retroarch config so I can use the latest mame core with apple2.

Just add -c "Path to config" to command line parameters. Path is relative to RA directory.  For example, I have a specific config file loading the Atari800 core and it looks like:

-c "config\Atari800_XL\Atari800.cfg"

 

Edited November 17, 2019 by sundogak

[SiriusVI]

Quick update:

I've just added Apple 2GS to Launchbox and it worked fine with just the regular method using mame core in retroarch. No additional "no quotes version" of retroarch needed, no command lines needed. It's really weird that apple 2 needed all that extra stuff when apple2gs works fine with just the hash files and correct folder naming.

[SiriusVI]

Another question:

How would I go about emulating apple 2 cassette games? I cannot even get them to run in standalone Mame. Mame's GUI only shows the floppy files.

[Headrush69]

5 hours ago, SiriusVI said:

Another question:

How would I go about emulating apple 2 cassette games? I cannot even get them to run in standalone Mame. Mame's GUI only shows the floppy files.

Are you using standalone or with Retroarch?

I'm on MAME 0.215 standalone and the Tape menu is right above File Manager in the MAME menu. 

I'm not 100% sure, but I'm not sure Appple II cassettes self boot, so you might have to load to DOS 3.3 first and than load your cassette.

Edit: Do you have some cassette only software? I ask because cassette loading works but is obviouskly very slow.

 

Edited December 7, 2019 by Headrush69

[JoeViking245]

In standalone MAME ui...Double click (or press enter) on Apple Derby (or any cassette)

Press <Ctrl>+B  and  then <Enter>       That'll get you to the ">" prompt.

Press <Scroll Lock>   Then press <F2>      Toggles keyboard emulation and sends "Play"

Type in   LOAD    and then press  <Enter>

be patient and wait just a minute until you hear a beep AND see a second ">" prompt

Type in   RUN    and then press  <Enter>

Now Play.

 

If you get an Err message after typing in LOAD (or  RUN  ) and pressing <Enter>, I don't know what to tell you.  "Apple Derby" seems to load and run though.  It's a start.

 

Spoiler

 

 

[SiriusVI]

@JoeViking245 I finally got around to tackeling apple2 cassettes once more. I've followed your instructions and was able to laucnh "Apple Derby" as you suggested in Mame standalone and through retroarch.

However, literally every other game I've tried gives me various errors when trying the same method:

1. "ERR"

2. "MEM FULL ERR"

3. "ERR NO END"

 

This happens in MAME standalone and in retroarch. I've researched and found these instructions for the original hardware:

1. Rewind the tape completely. 

2. Type the word LOAD at the keyboard. 

3. Press the PLAY button on the cassette recorder to start the 
tape. 

4. Press the RETURN key. 

When you press the RETURN key, the cursor disappears. After 
15 or 20 seconds you can analyze your success. 
If you get the message 7SYNTAX ERROR or ?***SYNTAX 
ERR, do not adjust the volume, just go back to step 1 and try 
again. If this keeps happening, try cleaning the cassette recorder 
heads, or use a different tape. 

If nothing happens, or if the message ?ERR or ?***MEM 
FULL ERR appears, reset the computer by pressing CONTROL- 
RESET. If doing this makes the * command prompt appear, re- 
start BASIC by pressing first CONTROL-B and then the RETURN 
key. Next, set the tape recorder volume a little higher and try 
again. "

EDIT: and also this:

"At this point, you could either begin entering a BASIC program, or try to load one from cassette. To load from cassette was not always easy; it took time to get the right volume and tone settings on the tape player in order to avoid getting the "ERR" or "*** SYNTAX ERR" message. (And if you didn't have much memory, you might get a "*** MEM FULL ERR" message!) When you got it properly loaded, you could type RUN and see what happened. "

 

Any ideas on how to troubleshoot these errors in Mame?

Edited May 1, 2020 by SiriusVI

[JoeViking245]

Based on that info, I'd say try cleaning the recorder heads 1st. 

Here's some more stuff I've learned.....

<Ctrl>+B  <Enter> loads "Integer Basic" for the apple2 system.  The    >    prompt.

Some of the games need to run in "Applesoft Basic".   Depicted by a    ]    prompt.   For example "B-1 Nuclear Bomber" (cassette).
You will need to load these cassettes using the apple2p system rom file (a clone of apple2).  (Unless you can figure out how to load Applesoft through apple2).
When the blank-ish screen comes up, press <Ctrl>+F12 (en lieu of <Ctrl>+B).  Then proceed as before.

A 3rd type will run from just the "Montor".  The     *     prompt you initially see when loading apple2.  An example is "3D Star Fire".  But instead of typing "LOAD" and "RUN", these require a top secret set of characters to be entered.  OK. So maybe not top secret, but they are a little cryptic (at least to me).  In the example of "3D Star Fire", you launch the cassette through MAME using the apple2 system file.

-  At the   *   prompt, type in  30.3FR    (do NOT press Enter yet!)
-  Now press <Scroll Lock>  then  <F2>  then  <Enter>

You can find all these secret codes, or "usage" values in the apple2_cass.xml file.  You can also view the using the MAME ui. 

Note that these will show which prompt you need to be in.  So in the xml you'll see the usage value as shown above which means... At the "Monitor" prompt, type in 30.3FR  (as in, don't include the "*")

You may be able to create a per game ini file and under SCRIPTING OPTIONS and place the 'secret code' in the autoboot_command.  At least for the ones that run from the Monitor prompt.  Though I'm sure there's some other secret code that can pass Ctrl-B and Ctrl-F12 for the other 2 respectively.   (still learning)

[SiriusVI]

2 hours ago, JoeViking245 said:

Based on that info, I'd say try cleaning the recorder heads 1st. 

I'm on it

Thank you once more so much for your info. I got 3D Star Fire running no problem. 

I wasn't able to get apple2p working. The rom launches, but there is just a black screen saying Apple II and I can'T type anything.

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by SiriusVI

[JoeViking245]

After loading apple2p, were you able to see the "]" prompt after pressing <Ctrl>+<F12>?

[SiriusVI]

No, there wasn't any prompt. as soon as I pressed <F12> (while holding CTRL, of course), the tape started playing.

[JoeViking245]

Hmmm..... no idea. If the tape started playing,  

either you pressed F2 or maybe you have an apple2p.ini file somewhere that's loading up stuff for you.?.?.   But here, [even if starting apple2p empty (no cassette)] I get the logo at the top (and nothing else) like what you had....Then pressing Ctrl+F12, the screen goes black, and the ] cursor appears in the bottom left (and a white flashing block on its right) 

 

[SiriusVI]

Oh man, I'm an idiot. I was pressing F2. I misread what you wrote. Sorry, it was really late last night... F12 works like a charm.

Is there a list of games that require apple2p instead of apple2?

EDIT: btw. apple2e works here as well.

Edited May 2, 2020 by SiriusVI

[Headrush69]

8 minutes ago, SiriusVI said:

Is there a list of games that require apple2p instead of apple2?

I don't know if you are talking just software lists and/or cassettes only, but in general It's not that simple because disk format and whether a crack was used matters.

For example, you can find copies of Choplifter that run with the Apple \\e, but if you are using the newer woz format that preservers the exact floppy image, it requires a plain Apple ][.

[SiriusVI]

3 minutes ago, Headrush69 said:

I don't know if you are talking just software lists and/or cassettes only, but in general It's not that simple because disk format and whether a crack was used matters.

For example, you can find copies of Choplifter that run with the Apple \\e, but if you are using the newer woz format that preservers the exact floppy image, it requires a plain Apple ][.

Well I haven't had any problems with floppy disks whatsoever and apple2e works fine with all games I've tried that are not cassettes.

The issue here is just with cassettes wich seem to require different methods to load, as @JoeViking245 described.

[Headrush69]

1 hour ago, SiriusVI said:

Well I haven't had any problems with floppy disks whatsoever and apple2e works fine with all games I've tried that are not cassettes.

It depends on the format you are using and count yourself lucky. A person could go crazy wondering why a few games just wouldn't work, I know! 

1 hour ago, SiriusVI said:

The issue here is just with cassettes wich seem to require different methods to load, as @JoeViking245 described.

I wasn't sure and I'll admit I was lazy and didn't want to read the entire thread. Apple \\ was my first computer but I never used cassettes. When I started it was typing in 10 pages of assembly code from Nibble magazine. Loved that magazine and learned so much from it's articles on programming.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Headrush69