Moderator Guidelines and Contributor Rules

[Sylwahan]

I see that it was mentioned a couple of pages back but I made a case for unifying the developer/publisher metadata here:

To me it seems completely insane to allow three or four different name variations for the same entity without having any guidelines to prevent this.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Sylwahan

[MJF]

Quick question about boxart images. I've noticed that there are a lot of boxart images (not fanart) that have no region assigned. Were these games added before the regionalization rules for boxart were established?

[Thanatos_Prime]

2 hours ago, LordEvyl said:

Quick question about boxart images. I've noticed that there are a lot of boxart images (not fanart) that have no region assigned. Were these games added before the regionalization rules for boxart were established?

Before making it mandatory for Box art or if not set properly when the game itself was added, yes.

[kurzih]

On 9/18/2020 at 9:12 PM, kurzih said:

Would be nice to know for sure if they are really hurting something with the themes and how. I would also start rejecting those if there isn't any concrete example for not having them in the DB. There's a lot of space for alt names.
In the other hand I doubt they are much useful for scraping/importing, since most filenames are in Latin Alphabet.

But if we flip the coin: I can see the benefit having Katakana/Hiragana/Kanji in the DB. For example with very limited Japanese language skills, I have found a huge amount of content when searching in Japanese letters.

Sorry, self-quoting, since I need to get back to this with a bigger issue:

If someone really needs to have those Alt names in Katakana/Hiragana etc., then do not region tag them at all, or at least not with the same region as the default name has. Otherwise the scrapping will be a total mess, look at this - I've tried to update metadata for MSX and some of the Default title name for Japanese-only games have been overwritten with that Alt name. To be on the safe side, it's perhaps best to stick with Latin Alphabet ONLY in the database, unless we can figure out a way which always works - I guess the default name could be region tagged, but is there an option for that?

[Vedruger]

On 1/30/2021 at 9:39 AM, kurzih said:

Sorry, self-quoting, since I need to get back to this with a bigger issue:

If someone really needs to have those Alt names in Katakana/Hiragana etc., then do not region tag them at all, or at least not with the same region as the default name has. Otherwise the scrapping will be a total mess, look at this - I've tried to update metadata for MSX and some of the Default title name for Japanese-only games have been overwritten with that Alt name. To be on the safe side, it's perhaps best to stick with Latin Alphabet ONLY in the database, unless we can figure out a way which always works - I guess the default name could be region tagged, but is there an option for that?

The solutions for that would be 3:

1) Add the possibility of regionalizing the default name.

2) Add a reiteration of the name. That is, the same name will be added twice to be able to regionalize. For example:

       "Dragon Ball Z: Buyuu Retsuden" has alternative names to

       "Dragon Ball Z: Buyū Retsuden" (Japan) and

       "ド ラ ゴ ン ボ ー ル Ｚ 武勇 列 伝" (Japan) among others.

       If ド ラ ゴ ン ボ ー ル Ｚ 武勇 列 伝 with Japan region is added, when importing it will be shown as ド ラ ゴ ン ボ ー ル Ｚ 武勇 列 伝, but if Dragon Ball Z: Buyuu Retsuden with Japan region is added, it will be displayed correctly according to the name of the rom file. The same happens if only Dragon Ball Z: Buyū Retsuden or Doragon Bōru Zetto Buyū Retsuden with Japan region is added or both at the same time. Those users who have in some instance of priority to the Japan region, will visualize that regionalized name and because the name cannot be regionalized by default, the solution is to add the same name by default but regionalized.

3) Add the name without regionalizing. For the same case: "Dragon Ball Z: Buyuu Retsuden" has no region, and will be added as much as "Dragon Ball Z: Buyū Retsuden", "ド ラ ゴ ン ボ ー ル Ｚ 武勇 列 伝" and "Doragon Bōru Zetto Buyū Retsuden" without region, but this method causes problems with others names that the game may possess, for example "Dragon Ball Z: L'Appel du Destin" (France). In this way, if the game files Japan and France are in the ROM collection, France will be displayed as it is regionalized and the rest of the names will be left without a region.

This that I comment, is in accordance with the current LaunchBox functionalities, which means that if the app is updated in this regard, what I say may be without effect. Just do tests by importing, making changes to the database and re-importing (previously deleting our game from the library) once the DB is updated. Another solution is the manual edition of each of these games, but I think the idea is that this process is done automatically and in the most efficient way possible.

By the way, I am using a Spanish to English translator to comment

Edited January 31, 2021 by Vedruger

[vagrant_17]

Hi guys. What's the official word on multiple games with the same title on the same platform, do we need to include the developer within parantheses in the title or not?
I'd assume there's enough metadata like release year / developer etc. to separate the entries.

I'd like to go ahead and remove developer names from game titles as I come across them, but of course I will not do this if it's going to cause some kind of merging or recognition error 

[Thanatos_Prime]

1 hour ago, vagrant_17 said:

Hi guys. What's the official word on multiple games with the same title on the same platform, do we need to include the developer within parantheses in the title or not?
I'd assume there's enough metadata like release year / developer etc. to separate the entries.

I'd like to go ahead and remove developer names from game titles as I come across them, but of course I will not do this if it's going to cause some kind of merging or recognition error 

Yes, something to differentiate them in the title and developer is a good one, though primary publisher is very often used. If you see anything in parenthesis it is likely because of this. Thank you for taking the time to find out beforehand because it does make it so users cannot download the correct graphics\art.

[vagrant_17]

Ok cool, will leave them as is ?
Yeh, I noticed when I removed the publisher from the title in my local DB, it downloaded media for ALL games with the same name

[kurzih]

A quick double check of the "Game type" "Unreleased" metadata field. It's quite clear it works for games that were officially cancelled etc. but is it for something else too?

What about the many games on "pre-order" that we tend to see added in the database nowadays, games that are future releases. The "Unreleased" choice is most likely for games that were never released, it's not meant for "future" games that will be released, or is it? Could the developers please confirm this?

If adding "Unreleased" to a game that hasn't been released yet, but has an official release date (in the future), wouldn't this happen:

a) some of those entries will be forgotten to be updated after release day is past to "released" from "unreleased"

b) Even if it will be updated from release day or a bit later, people using the default metadata update process will not get this updated since the datafield is already occupied and will not get overwritten (default metadata update only fills empty fields, not occupied ones) if they already have that game in their collection when it was still marked as "unreleased".

Wouldn't it be better to leave this field empty if someone really wants to put a game that is going to be released, but hasn't yet. Any thoughts on this, is this field a multipurpose field when it comes to the "unreleased" type or?

[vagrant_17]

I'm seeking clarification as to what constitutes a "World" release.. specifically in regard to home computers.

If we have a game that only had a PAL release, yet was an identical release in PAL countries outside of Europe.. should it be marked "Europe" or "World"?
I would have thought the latter, since the game was not limited to Europe.


 

[kurzih]

2 hours ago, vagrant_17 said:

I'm seeking clarification as to what constitutes a "World" release.. specifically in regard to home computers.

If we have a game that only had a PAL release, yet was an identical release in PAL countries outside of Europe.. should it be marked "Europe" or "World"?
I would have thought the latter, since the game was not limited to Europe.


 

I don't know if this related, but I can see that someone is trying to "world-it" in the commodore Amiga section and making a few mistakes along the way. You can determine in most cases the region the game was released on based on the cover's indications/language - especially the publisher/address/bar codes etc. on the back cover. And if you want to double check your sources then go check out platform specific fan-pages for old computers.  It is REALLY rare that a game cover would be a "World" cover when it comes to (vintage) home computers even if the artwork would look the same, like on the commodore 64 and commodore Amiga. There are also cases where a retailer had bought a PAL game batch from Europe and sells it in another country outside Europe, it doesn't mean it's a "world" game unless it has been officially published in that country. My recommendation is that if you are not 100% sure a cover could be classified as "World" - it's better to stick with the information that is already available on the database. That's what I would think anyway.

[vagrant_17]

Yeh there's some back-and-forth happening in the Amiga section, thought a post here would be a smart idea ?
It was a moderator claiming a certain game was "released in Europe only anyway" that got my attention, since I still own an Australian copy of it.
Hall of Light is the best source for amiga game-related info (but of course no site ever comes with 100% guarantee). They usually state what games are worldwide or region specific releasing.
Most of the PAL games made it here to Australia at least, and most of the time had exactly the same packaging/art as the UK (uk addresses on the back etc.).
But to further complicate things, sometimes we got the US packaging (usually EA, Cinemaware & Sierra titles), or a bizarre combination of both UK & US releases ?

[kurzih]

You're right about Australia. There's even local publishers/developers for the Amiga there, so no doubt there has been official releases there that are based on the European version and have been localized in some way or even local Australian-made games shipped to Europe. The only tricky thing is to know for sure if the shops were selling imported UK/European versions or versions that were intended for the Australian market - that would be the difference to make: to what market the game was intended to be sold in the first place. But back then, who knows for sure  That's why I'd stick with the main information available on the front/back covers, disk labels and bar codes. Another good thing to look at, are advertisement flyers (from magazines), you've got currency and addresses there quite often as good hints.

HOL and LemonAmiga are pretty good sources indeed . Yes, I agree that especially Cinemaware and Sierra covers are really basically the same everywhere with the US address included (unless a UK budget release), maybe the disc labels are the ones to spot in those.

And thank you for bringing this up to the forum, there are too many back-and-forth going on in the database because mostly the only discussion there is been done in the moderator comment field and that doesn't cover all moderators and some contributors do not even moderate and see any of those comments.

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by kurzih

[vagrant_17]

Yes, import versions, good point!
I'd say a lot would have been..  IIRC Australian distributers would sometimes put a sticker on the shrink-wrap, not the box itself. But to be fair, it's been at least 25 years since I purchased a shrink-wrapped Amiga game ?
I guess if there is no mention of Australia (or any other country) on the box or media, then 'Europe' would be the best bet, since that where it originated from.

No problem for bringing it up, I had to, this is the mighty Amiga we are talking about ?

Yeh I havn't been moderating long, but have noticed the moderation queue seems to be filled with a lot of recurring submitions.. would be very beneficial if the system was a bit more 'interactive'

[kurzih]

On 10/25/2020 at 5:42 PM, DOS76 said:

I believe we are only looking for the US publisher in this case and the same for the release date hopefully someone with more knowledge of the DB rules can chime in and verify that.

There shouldn't be any doubt of the release date, since there can only be one in the DB per game entry at the moment. It's the first release date the game was released on. Doesn't matter which country it was released later, only the first date matters:



I'm just reminding this, since I can see that someone is trying to change first dates into later (North American dates) in the DB, like NES where there is gaps of years in between in some cases.

The release date rule is also mentioned in the first post of this thread and since there is no regional dates yet implemented you should only put the earliest date available:
 

1. A game's release date must require at least a release year. If the game has documentation for the release day and month then please provide.
   • Older games may not have accurate data on release dates.
   • In case of no year, leave blank until that information can be found.
   • The release date should be the first date the game was released on.
   • Regional Date categories are going to be implemented, which will then require each game to have the proper date for the proper region.

Edited May 12, 2021 by kurzih

[Freestate]

On 1/29/2021 at 9:22 PM, LordEvyl said:

Quick question about boxart images. I've noticed that there are a lot of boxart images (not fanart) that have no region assigned. Were these games added before the regionalization rules for boxart were established?

If they are FAN CREATIONS, not created using real box releases, they must remain without region tag. We don't have fan tag for 3d boxes, many people only want fan creations as a workaround when nothing else is available (digital only games, homebrew, etc), if you regionally tag 3d fanboxes they overlap due to region priority when you download data. Is disgusting to see a lot of westernized fanboxes instead the real japanese ones for example.

Until we have fan tag for 3d boxes or clear logos, any non official media must remain regionally untagged to be available as an option but not taking priority over the real ones.

[MJF]

On 7/3/2021 at 4:16 AM, Freestate said:

If they are FAN CREATIONS, not created using real box releases, they must remain without region tag. We don't have fan tag for 3d boxes, many people only want fan creations as a workaround when nothing else is available (digital only games, homebrew, etc), if you regionally tag 3d fanboxes they overlap due to region priority when you download data. Is disgusting to see a lot of westernized fanboxes instead the real japanese ones for example.

Until we have fan tag for 3d boxes or clear logos, any non official media must remain regionally untagged to be available as an option but not taking priority over the real ones.

No I was talking about actual legit scans that came from places like Mobygames. I'm not talking boxarts that are listed as fanart, or recons, I mean box fronts that are actually listed as legit box fronts with no region tag

Edited July 5, 2021 by LordEvyl

[Thanatos_Prime]

On 7/2/2021 at 11:46 PM, Freestate said:

If they are FAN CREATIONS, not created using real box releases, they must remain without region tag. We don't have fan tag for 3d boxes, many people only want fan creations as a workaround when nothing else is available (digital only games, homebrew, etc), if you regionally tag 3d fanboxes they overlap due to region priority when you download data. Is disgusting to see a lot of westernized fanboxes instead the real japanese ones for example.

Until we have fan tag for 3d boxes or clear logos, any non official media must remain regionally untagged to be available as an option but not taking priority over the real ones.

All database items should have regions where necessary to allow them to properly download. Let people make their own decisions about what they want to keep and delete locally.

[Freestate]

3 hours ago, Thanatos_Prime said:

All database items should have regions where necessary to allow them to properly download. Let people make their own decisions about what they want to keep and delete locally.

You're totally missing about the issue, is more important to tag diferently legit art and fan created art, due to the explained lacks in database that's not posible in 3d boxes or clear logos and triggers mixed downloads. It's preferable to lower the  need of arrange things manually after. And no, not all art is mandatory to tag it regionally, backgrounds as an extra decoration is not mandatory (common sense), fanart is an extra (to complete missing media or personal appeals) i thing that keeping it as i explain regionally untagged to avoid mixed downloads is common sense.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Freestate

[Freestate]

8 hours ago, LordEvyl said:

No I was talking about actual legit scans that came from places like Mobygames. I'm not talking boxarts that are listed as fanart, or recons, I mean box fronts that are actually listed as legit box fronts with no region tag

AH Ok, maybe they are previous to region tags, and sometimes that games where stuffed in the first place only with usa box art, the european and japanese where added after. This issue is common to see it as USA cover not regionalized and japanese and european with correct tagging or japanese exclusives without region.