Can someone do an updated Apple IIGS setup Write up?

[sundogak]

@launcherbox Nothing has changed with MAME, but you have to be careful in moving from zip to non-zip methods that you use the appropriate MAME commands.  On the LB import side, in most cases it will import anything but suspect you are running into issue with the LB MAME importer portion making some assumptions.  If you are going the zip route then MAME knows via the MAME software list the checksums of individual 2MG files in the zip and knows which one to load into the appropriate virtual drive (up to two 3.5" drives, no slot option to add more).  Like you saw, LB is then happy as well in that scenario. Outside of LB, MAME will run 2MG files directly (among others noted above) but you then have to use the proper flags and full paths for MAME to know what to do because the XML assumptions are no longer valid.

The thing that I did see that don't recall being the case in 2019 (maybe due to the Full Import MAME tool feature add) is that now with version 11.13 if I dragged/dropped or imported unzipped 2MG files and selected MAME as the emulator it wouldn't show the entries for import (even with force dupe on).  So something wonky there.  If I toggled the emulator to something else non-MAME, they would show up which then allows you to import. You can then go back and edit back to MAME as emulator. So try an emulator besides MAME on import for the problem you noted above.  Somewhat round-a-bout but you have to go in anyway to edit the custom command line for the game anyway. 

To recap on import side:

• Drag drop the multi-disk 2MG file and select ROM for import. Make sure the 2MG files are named in format that LB knows they are all part of a set [i.e., GAME (Disk 1 of 2)]. Should be the case if used MAME set and unzipped.  I keep unzipped files (particularly player/user disks) outside the MAME directory to keep things from getting confusing.  
• Select something other than MAME as emulator initially (due to import issue noted prior)
• Select the Apple Il GS as Platform
• Make sure the check box for combining single games is checked.  
• You should get to the "ready to import" screen and should look something like this:

Once you unzip, you must explicitly tell MAME what to do with each file (and correspo ndingly LB so it can relay to MAME on launch).  That isn't any different than described back in 2019. If you scroll up to top on my earlier post where I have the header "Multi-Discs games" it shows screen shots and lots of detail on this with the example of Bards Tale. But to recap, you have to put a custom command in where unzipped multi discs are used. You must use the proper drive flags:  flop4 is the full path to 3.5" disk 2 and flop3 is path 3.5" disk one but LB will substitute whatever is in the ROM File entry under "Launching" so you don't have to put in the full path like you do for flop4. 

Example for the Custom Command-line Parameters :

apple2gs -flop4 "FULLPATH TO 2MG FILE DISK 2" -flop3

Note that when using custom command-line it over-rides everything that is in your normal MAME entry for that platform; hence why you have to put in apple2gs flag again or MAME won't know to use IIGS routines.  On LB side, it would be a lot easier if LB had rompath variables for additional apps.  So you could do something like -flop4 %rompath2% -flop3 %rompath% to make it a global change vs having to do per game.  

With all that said, leaving things "zipped" and letting MAME do its thing is the far easiest way to go. No messy custom command line parameters needed then.  You just have to make sure in that case you do NOT use -flop commands anywhere (just point to the MAME zip). MAME will auto load the first two disks into flop3 and 4.  Other than for user disks,  I returned back to that because don't have to mess with per game commands. Plus, even if try to get fancy you are limited to two 3.5" virtual drives (can do four 5" drives but not useful for IIGS native software).  Also MAME has no "swap or cycle disk" key command (oddly) so for 3 or 4 disks you are going to have to go to MAME File Manager regardless.

[launcherbox]

@sundogak, you're a serious asset to the community here - thank you so much for your detailed and informative posts, you're so helpful. 

I tried your info above here, and yes, I CAN now get a game to import successfully by changing the emulator to anything other than MAME, and then changing it back to MAME again once the game has successfully imported. However, MAME just will NOT boot anything for me that isn't a *.zip file. I don't even get the MAME screen to flash up, nothing. All my zipped games launch perfectly, but once I tried boot an unzipped image, nothing will start. I'm using Mame .232 just for reference, that latest as of writing this.

If I try to do this manually, outside of Launchbox, and use the command prompt - this is what I get:

Fatal error: Device Apple/Sony 3.5 DD (400/800K GCR) load (-floppydisk3 three stooges, the (1990)(cinemaware)(disk 1 of 2)[cr][b].2mg) failed: File not found

^^ that's by using the following command:

mame.exe apple2gs -gameio joy -ui_active -flop3 "three stooges, the (1990)(cinemaware)(disk 1 of 2)[cr][b].2mg"

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by launcherbox

[launcherbox]

@sundogak - never mind, I'm dumb! The command hadn't got the file path in it. Once I entered the full path, the game booted up perfectly as a non zipped *.2mg file. I can now continue on with your original guide. Again, thank you so  much

[launcherbox]

@sundogak one last thing if I may pick your brain on this system....there are some games which are NOT mentioned in the MAME softlist xml file. In particular, Out of this World is a game I'd like to get running for the Apple IIgs. I've tried to manually start this game by using the above commands, and MAME boots and tries to start the game, but throws up an error about "UNABLE TO LOAD PRODOS". I'm assuming such games are NOT self booting, and need an OS booted first. Is there any way to throw an OS disc at MAME, and ultimately be able to play these games through MAME?

[kurzih]

1 hour ago, launcherbox said:

@sundogak one last thing if I may pick your brain on this system....there are some games which are NOT mentioned in the MAME softlist xml file. In particular, Out of this World is a game I'd like to get running for the Apple IIgs. I've tried to manually start this game by using the above commands, and MAME boots and tries to start the game, but throws up an error about "UNABLE TO LOAD PRODOS". I'm assuming such games are NOT self booting, and need an OS booted first. Is there any way to throw an OS disc at MAME, and ultimately be able to play these games through MAME?

Might this solution work for you for games requiring DOS to Boot?

 

 

[sundogak]

On 6/28/2021 at 11:29 AM, launcherbox said:

@sundogak one last thing if I may pick your brain on this system....there are some games which are NOT mentioned in the MAME softlist xml file. In particular, Out of this World is a game I'd like to get running for the Apple IIgs. I've tried to manually start this game by using the above commands, and MAME boots and tries to start the game, but throws up an error about "UNABLE TO LOAD PRODOS". I'm assuming such games are NOT self booting, and need an OS booted first. Is there any way to throw an OS disc at MAME, and ultimately be able to play these games through MAME?

What @kurzih referenced with lots of good information for many platforms (incl. IIGS).  Specific to the IIGS, is that the PRODOS error indicates that no boot OS is located on the game disc. So you have to launch a system disk first.  There are lots of ways to work it but the basic step is you must launch MAME with with a System Disk in flop3 position (i.e., drive 1 - 3.5").  Then you can either use MAME file Manager to go to directory where game is located or if you told LB what disk to load in flop4 (drive 2) position then you can simply go to MAME File Manager and should be loaded without having to traverse directory.  For IIGS that is usually the best way in that the OS will launch and you should see a icon on the IIGS desktop to launch the game since the game is loaded in flop4 position and it will show as disk icon in IIGS window

I have found it easiest if doing more than one PRODOS game, to setup a separate duplicate MAME emulator and call it something like "MAME_IIG_PRODOS" and then you can set the OS disk launch commands in that specific emulator (and leave your normal MAME alone) as well as allows you to leave your imported games in LB untouched without having to mess with a bunch of custom commands for each game.  

apple2gs -flop3 "G:\Emulators\Apple IIGS\roms\Player Discs\System.DiskIIGS.po" -flop4

The first part tells MAME to load the system disk in flop3 position and then to load whatever game launching into Disk 2 position.  The advantage is that then you have the OS launched and the first disk already loaded into MAME. If using this method, make sure no "custom" launch commands in the game entry like talked about in earlier posts, so don't get conflicts for what setup at emulator level.  

In the case of Cryllan Mission 2088 - The Second Scenario which is 3 disks, I imported the game disks just like normal in LB.  Thus, the first disk is the game that LB will insert into command for MAME as Disk 2 (flop4).  When IIGS launches you will see something like this (depends on what OS disk you use though):

Notice that the "Program2088" is the file LB told MAME to load an Drive 2.  If I click on the "Start" link then it launches the game.  The thread that was mentioned above goes into some details on how to autolaunch things so you don't have to click the icon, but that now gets into each platform's unique way of managing things.  So won't get into all that.  At some point, if have more than 1 game disk (since already occupy drive 1 with OS) then you will wind up in the MAME File Manager (see below) window at some point to swap disks around. There is just only so much automation can do with these system types.   For example, this game I launched will want "OUTDOOR" disk at some point which happens to be disk 3.  So have to swap out the system disk for that one via MAME File Manager like show below.  With only two 3.5" drives available, you begin to appreciate the wonders of hard drives.  

Now where to get the System Disk?  Well a MAME full software set has a system disk if you look in the apple2gs folder and scroll down to "sys###" zip files.  I just use "sys601.zip" typically for the 6.01 version of the OS. Unzip that outside MAME and look for the disk called "system 6.0.1 (1993)(apple)(fw)(disk 2 of 7)(system).2mg"   That is a system disk with ProDos.  You can rename it whatever you like just make sure to give path and name to what you enter into your emulator settings above.  There is also a variety of websites like www.apple.asimov.net that have system desks including hard drive images with OS baked in already. 

Launching a HD image is similar to a floppy with the following commands where you tell MAME to load slot 7 with SCSI adapter and then -hard1 points to hard drive image.  Note that HDV files typically found on web have to be converted to CHD if using MAME.  Update: Versions of MAME 214 and higher can run hard drive images in CHD, HDV, or 2MG format.  Having things on a HD avoids all the floppy swapping but for games in particular it isn't trivial getting something that was on floppy moved and working on a HD image.  

apple2gs -sl7 scsi -noautosave -hard1 "G:\Emulators\Apple IIGS\roms\8-bit Games.chd"

 

Edited July 2, 2021 by sundogak
updated note on not needing CHD with 214+ MAME

[launcherbox]

@kurzih & @sundogak - you're both hero's among us. Through both of your posts, I've got Out of this World up and running and without pain! I can't thank you both enough for your help and overall contributions to the community

[legolas119]

hi,

ii kindly ask your help: unfortunately i deleted my old installation folder of MAMEUI with the Apple II GS configuration...i configured it months ago using this guide....but now i'm not abel to run again the games...

I'm using the lates MAMEUI version 0.259 64 bit. I set up the roms folder in this way:

and this is my roms folder:

but any game is detected in MAMEUI:

I configure the Emulator in this way:

But when i run every game it appears this: 

and this:

Please can anyone help me? Which is the missing/wrong set up? I don't remember how i configured it months ago....  I tried every game in my previous installation and they perfectly work...so for sure there is something missing/wrong in this new installation...

thank you!

[JoeViking245]

25 minutes ago, legolas119 said:

Please can anyone help me? Which is the missing/wrong set up? I don't remember how i configured it months ago....  I tried every game in my previous installation and they perfectly work...so for sure there is something missing/wrong in this new installation...

apple2gs.zip    Based on the command line you're using, move it in with the ROMs. 

As for not seeing it in MAMEUI, can't help with that.

[sundogak]

54 minutes ago, legolas119 said:

hi,

ii kindly ask your help: unfortunately i deleted my old installation folder of MAMEUI with the Apple II GS configuration...i configured it months ago using this guide....but now i'm not abel to run again the games...

I'm using the lates MAMEUI version 0.259 64 bit. I set up the roms folder in this way:

and this is my roms folder:

but any game is detected in MAMEUI:

I configure the Emulator in this way:

But when i run every game it appears this: 

and this:

Please can anyone help me? Which is the missing/wrong set up? I don't remember how i configured it months ago....  I tried every game in my previous installation and they perfectly work...so for sure there is something missing/wrong in this new installation...

thank you!

That's because you are missing a base directory in your setup.  Don't get "roms" and "software" mixed up.  The MAMEUI directory (just like MAME) should point to your base ROM directory always.  This is where your arcade setup files are located.  Software (i.e., the games that were on floppy disk) should be pointed to separately.  I don't recall on MAMEUI but more than likely you should add another entry in that ROMs screen (so two entries) to your base MAME directory + the directory where you floppy disk images are located.   Running computer setups always requires in essence two directories vs arcade only one.  

Edited October 7, 2023 by sundogak

[legolas119]

12 hours ago, JoeViking245 said:

apple2gs.zip    Based on the command line you're using, move it in with the ROMs. 

As for not seeing it in MAMEUI, can't help with that.

thanks! where i can download the apple2gs.zip file? I googled by i don't find it...

[legolas119]

11 hours ago, sundogak said:

That's because you are missing a base directory in your setup.  Don't get "roms" and "software" mixed up.  The MAMEUI directory (just like MAME) should point to your base ROM directory always.  This is where your arcade setup files are located.  Software (i.e., the games that were on floppy disk) should be pointed to separately.  I don't recall on MAMEUI but more than likely you should add another entry in that ROMs screen (so two entries) to your base MAME directory + the directory where you floppy disk images are located.   Running computer setups always requires in essence two directories vs arcade only one.  

thanks, i added again the original rom path:

even if i store in any case the Apple II GS games in EMULATORI\ROM\Apple II GS:

Is it necessary to move the games from there to D:\EMULATORI\MAME Others System\roms? FOr sure in my previous installation the roms where always here: D:\EMULATORI\ROM\Apple II GS as i didn't move or delete them. I only deleted the emulator folder

Checking my old configuration screenshot, i see that i set the emulator in this way:

Today, as you can see, the Dedault Command -Line Parameters and the Sample Command have different values: which is the right configuration?

thank you very much

[JoeViking245]

2 hours ago, legolas119 said:

thanks! where i can download the apple2gs.zip file? I googled by i don't find it...

It'll be in with your MAME Arcade full set ROMs. (You won't find it with the MAME's softlist ROMs).

 

2 hours ago, legolas119 said:

Today, as you can see, the Dedault Command -Line Parameters and the Sample Command have different values: which is the right configuration?

Since the old Command-line Parameters previously worked, I'd go with that one.  

You just need to make sure MAMEUI knows where your ROMs are located [which is what you did by adding in the ROM paths].

 

[legolas119]

ok, i downloaded the apple2gs.zip file and put it in the following paths:

D:\EMULATORI\MAME Others System\software

D:\EMULATORI\MAME Others System\roms

and i still continue to have this error:

then i put the apple2gs.zip into the same folder where i put the games: D:\EMULATORI\ROM\Apple II GS and now it works. I don't know why, in my previous installation i dind't have that file in that path (as i previously said, the folder with games is still the same, i dind't delete it), for sure in my previous installation i put the file in a diffeent path. But it doesn't matter

Now i tried to configure the mame.ini file like the one present in my Arcade64 folder, but the setting with filter, hlsl, scanlines and so on aren't detected... I'm quite sure that they were detected in my previous installation...

I have another issue: when i run the games, the TAB button doesn't work so i can't set and modify any MAME option...i really don't know why, usually it alwasy works in my MAME and Arcade64 installation...in this installation it isn't detected...

thank you very much!

[spycat]

As the Apple II GS is a computer, try enabling MAME's ui controls before using TAB.

Edited October 8, 2023 by spycat
typo

[legolas119]

well..i don't know how to do that...but in any case, i restart the pc and now the TAB command works...

But i have 2 problems:

1) some games doesn't start anymore... I'm absolutely sure they worked fine with my previous installation.  Now when i run the game (using LB), it appears a blue screen like this:

or like this, where the game freezes during the loading process:

and there is a sound (TAC , TAC, TAC, TAC...continuosly and quickly...), the pc is freezed, i can't stop the emulator and I can't do anything else..i can only restart the pc...

In addition there are games like Alien Minds that start but after the title screen, when i push ENTER, it appears a black screen and again the emulator freezes and it again there is the same sound effect (tac, tac, tac, tac...). I have to push CTRL+ALT+START and reboot the pc...

The game is correctly configured:

 

 

2) if i try some games using CMD commands, in this way:

the game doesn't start (and Arkanoid is working if i run it with LB).

So, is there any typing error in my Command Promt screen? The game of course is present:

 

thank you!

[sundogak]

@legolas119 You have a space just before "Arkanoid.2mg" in the command line; hence the error saying it cannot find the file. 

[legolas119]

thanks, right. But now if i try to launch the game in that way, i still have the following errors:

if i luanch it with LB it starts...

 

And do you know why some games don't start anymore? What i can try to do? 

thank you very much