Why Virtual Pinball is different - a Vpinhead's confession

[JoeViking245]

As for your videos and wheel images (Clear Logos), if they're the same name as the table_name.vpx, I'm pretty sure you can just drop those files into the respective Image folders and they'll show up. (in LaunchBox, F5 to refresh images).

Aw heck! (just looked at the video) You do have a pin cab.  Nice!!  DMD and all.  Sweet!

[JoeViking245]

@ItchyRobot I recall doing something in the registry (quite a while back).  But it was for VPX in general vs. per specific tables.  I think it had to do with direct draw.  Not sure if it helps any, but here's my Video Options setup.

[ItchyRobot]

1 hour ago, JoeViking245 said:

@ItchyRobot I recall doing something in the registry (quite a while back).  But it was for VPX in general vs. per specific tables.  I think it had to do with direct draw.  Not sure if it helps any, but here's my Video Options setup.

That looks about the same settings as what I have. I think I have narrowed it down to being PinVol that is doing it. It's a program that sits in the background and allows for easy per table volume adjustment. After a little trial and error I found a Bigbox setting that seems to have fixed it ... Under Options > Mouse > Disable Mouse Across All Apps ?

Edited September 23, 2019 by ItchyRobot

[Headrush69]

On 9/10/2019 at 5:15 PM, JoeViking245 said:

No, I don't have a pin cab.  I do have a full size upright arcade cabinet that has buttons on the sides for flippers.  Baby steps. lol

I'm in the same boat. Do you use a second display for backglass on your setup?

I have both VPX and Future Pinball tables setup and running fine from LB. There are some great tables for both and each has it's pros and cons.

After lots of reading on several Pinball sites, the one issue I can't seem to find an answer to is can you use VPX in a dual screen setup, but leave the main playfield screen in landscape mode? I can rotate my display but I would rather not have that set up and seems VPX always rotates the playfield when I try to use a backglass display. (Basically always switches to cabinet mode)

[JoeViking245]

I've never attempted a 2nd display with VPX (nor FP).   

Does Backglass - Options - X/Y Rotation do anything?

 

Sounds like, video card pending, you might be able to automate a display rotation on a given monitor.  https://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=34850

But even better, add/modify a pov xml file for the table (backglass).  https://vpinball.com/forums/topic/vpx-backdrop-pov-importexport-tutorial/#post-48590

Now, I don't know if they all come with pov files to modify, or if you can even just add one if it doesn't.   But seems there has to be people who use dual desktop monitors for VPX, both in landscape mode.

[Headrush69]

15 hours ago, JoeViking245 said:

I've never attempted a 2nd display with VPX (nor FP).   

Does Backglass - Options - X/Y Rotation do anything?

...

Sounds like, video card pending, you might be able to automate a display rotation on a given monitor.  https://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=34850

But even better, add/modify a pov xml file for the table (backglass).  https://vpinball.com/forums/topic/vpx-backdrop-pov-importexport-tutorial/#post-48590

Now, I don't know if they all come with pov files to modify, or if you can even just add one if it doesn't.   But seems there has to be people who use dual desktop monitors for VPX, both in landscape mode.

I never intended to use a second monitor, but I was setting up my marquee cut LCD I saw that Future Pinball displayed a full screen backglass & DMD automatically and thought this was pretty cool.

I have messed with all those settings in VPX and haven't found one that works, yet. I have gotten suggestions to use PINUP player with VPX, but that's just another thing to setup and not all tables have media/backglass packs to use with it.

Frankly I'm torn between VPX and Future Pinball. I was always in the VPX camp because the physics where so much better, but newer tables with Future Pinball that use the latest physics, have a dynamic 3D rendering system, media upgrades for the backglass, might make it better for a dedicated cabinet and playability overall.

LOL, I love tinkering, but I want to be done tinkering too and just play. ?

[JoeViking245]

PINUP Player is actually pretty cool.  But my little i5 machine needs just a touch more oomph.  lol

Honestly I haven't even looked at FP in about a year.  So I'm probably out of touch by a version or 2.  So until I update it, my allegiance is still with VPX.   I also prefer the more nostalgic table look vs the eye candy of FX2 and FX3 (and to an extent, FP).  Just old school that way, I guess.

I know JP has done a lot of upgraded desktop modes for tables over the last 6+ months.  Though it's been a while there since I upgraded tables too.  VPX and pinmame are current, just not so much tables. ?

Ahhh.... the ol' "I'm done tinkering, I'm goin' to start playing now" thoughts.  Let us know how that goes for you. lol  jk  I need to stop thinking about it and actually start playing more myself.  "Oh!  Wait!  Just one more little tweak here, and then I'll start playing again."  It's a vicious cycle.

[Headrush69]

2 hours ago, JoeViking245 said:

PINUP Player is actually pretty cool.  But my little i5 machine needs just a touch more oomph.  lol

I've got a lowly i3 in my cabinet and it's handling the job fine. Always on the look out for a used cheap i7 upgrade though. ?

Quote

Honestly I haven't even looked at FP in about a year.  So I'm probably out of touch by a version or 2.  So until I update it, my allegiance is still with VPX.   I also prefer the more nostalgic table look vs the eye candy of FX2 and FX3 (and to an extent, FP).  Just old school that way, I guess.

I am the same but I don't mind video/audio upgrades that don't affect the game play. Tested an upgraded VPX Terminator 2 table that added explosions on the playfield and absolutely hated it.

The kids like that scrolling camera view feature, I don't, but with FP it's just a simple keystroke to switch views, no messing with tables parameters, so it's easy to leave them that option in a cabinet set up.

Quote

 I know JP has done a lot of upgraded desktop modes for tables over the last 6+ months.  Though it's been a while there since I upgraded tables too.  VPX and pinmame are current, just not so much tables. ?

I have a lot of his tables and have been upgrading tonight quite a few of them.

Quote

Ahhh.... the ol' "I'm done tinkering, I'm goin' to start playing now" thoughts.  Let us know how that goes for you. lol  jk  I need to stop thinking about it and actually start playing more myself.  "Oh!  Wait!  Just one more little tweak here, and then I'll start playing again."  It's a vicious cycle.

LOL. When the kids are asking me everyday, is it done yet, I need to stop. ?

Once pinball is completely set up, I'm done. (Except for adding some Sinden light guns ? ) 

Edit: OMG. Countless hours later... Disable B2S option in Preferences -> Configure Keys, Nudge and DOF. Backglass working with VPX now. Not using a DOF I would have never thought to look there.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Headrush69

[ItchyRobot]

JP just updated a lot of his tables with tweaks and his latest physics, so its a good time to get back in it.

 

How do you guys name your *.vpx tables? Personally, I leave them as the author names them so I can see what version it is ... version is usually part of the name of the file. The only problem with this method is that I continually have to update my rom path in LaunchBox to keep the tables playable. I guess my other option would be to just name my table generically; but then I wouldn't know the version. I guess this conundrum is why Jason doesn't want to officially add Pinball to LaunchBox; the continuous renaming of the tables.

Edited January 14, 2020 by ItchyRobot

[Headrush69]

5 minutes ago, ItchyRobot said:

How do you guys name your *.vpx tables? Personally, I leave them as the author names them so I can see what version it is ... version is usually part of the name of the file. The only problem with this method is that I continually have to update my rom path in LaunchBox to keep the tables playable. I guess my other option would be to just name my table generically; but then I wouldn't know the version. I guess this conundrum is why Jason doesn't want to officially add Pinball to LaunchBox; the continuous renaming of the tables.

Right now I'm making a folder for each table that has a "clean" name. Within that folder I can have several versions of that table, which have the full name with versions etc in the name. 

When I import I select to use the folder name as the rom name and allow duplicates. I generally only keep one for each table, so after testing I delete the others or rename specifically if I decide to keep a variant.

[JoeViking245]

Ya, naming conventions for Visual Pinball has been a mess since forever.  And it will never go away.  But can't really complain as all these tables are made royalty free by individuals, on their own free time.

I do the same as @Headrush69 using a clean folder name.  However back when, when I 1st imported them I did a drag and drop of all the VPX files.  Since most all the authors/version/revision/what_ever where inside parenthesis, LB left the Names pretty good and the versions etc went into the Version field.  Then when I update tables (again, way over due. lol)  I drop them into the 'proper' folder respectively and manually update were LB is pointing to.  Call it a part of the hobby. lol

[Drakkorcia]

I put Pinball Arcade in one of my arcade cabinets and used Xbox360ce to map the controls. Works perfectly and meets all my virtual pinball needs until I get a real table.

[JaysArcade]

On 1/12/2020 at 9:40 AM, Headrush69 said:

I'm in the same boat. Do you use a second display for backglass on your setup?

I have both VPX and Future Pinball tables setup and running fine from LB. There are some great tables for both and each has it's pros and cons.

After lots of reading on several Pinball sites, the one issue I can't seem to find an answer to is can you use VPX in a dual screen setup, but leave the main playfield screen in landscape mode? I can rotate my display but I would rather not have that set up and seems VPX always rotates the playfield when I try to use a backglass display. (Basically always switches to cabinet mode)

 

On 1/12/2020 at 3:36 PM, JoeViking245 said:

I've never attempted a 2nd display with VPX (nor FP).   

Does Backglass - Options - X/Y Rotation do anything?

 

 

You can run in landscape and also have a second display as the backglass no problem.

VPX tables typically do not include the backglass when you download them. They need to be downloaded separately. (unless you are running FSS tables, but I doubt that is the case)

Make sure the xy rotation is set to zero as Joeviking shows in his screenshot. This is landscape mode. If the xy is set to 270, that is the fullscreen orientation. If it is set to 270, the table will appear sideways on your landscape oriented monitor. (Make sure if you make changes like this, and the changes work the way you want, click save in the file menu before you close the table, otherwise your changes will not be saved)

Make sure you have the correct backglass file for the table you are setting up. For example if you are setting up the Bad Cats VPX 1.2.1a.vpx table, make sure the backglass file is named the same - Bad Cats VPX 1.2.1a.directb2s. Many times a backglass will need to be downloaded from a different website than from where you downloaded the table. As the Mandalorian puts it, "This is the way".

Make sure you ran the B2S_Setup exe file when you installed Visual Pinball. I recommend that you install the all-in-one installer for visual Pinball. https://vpinball.com/VPBdownloads/vpx-installer-10-6-0/ Doing this will ensure you have all the files you need to run VPX including the B2S_setup files. (If VPX balks that you need a newer version to run a particular table, at this point just download the stand alone VPX and install it over top the old one in the VPX folder. You probably won't need the whole all in one install again.) You'll find the B2S_setup in the Tables folder within the Visual Pinball folder.In the B2S_setup exe file, make sure you have the second (or third) display set as the display you want to use for the backglass, as well as setting the dimensions for the display if it doesn't do that for you automatically.

You also want to make sure you have run the B2SBackglassServerRegisterApp.exe file. This will make the Registry entry needed for Windows to know where to find the B2S server executable when the table is run.

Not sure it entirely matters, but if your second display is above your main display, make sure that is what windows is seeing. Windows will probably be fine however you arrange it, but for your own sanity, move the monitors around to how you actually have them set. If you are using a rotated display, they will be side by side and not on top of one another.

I set up a second monitor on my desktop to make sure I had this all right. Not the best images in the world but you can see the backglass on the left and the landscape mode table on the right. Ideally the backglass will be directly over the playfield, but this is the best I was willing to do in short notice.

There are a lot of settings within VPX, as well as settings outside VPX that have to be set just right to get things to work the way you want. I highly suggest reading the Visual Pinball Junkies FAQ for the best instructions available to install Visual Pinball X. https://goo.gl/BTzQjV

If the above link doesn't work, Try joining the Visual Pinball Junkies Facebook group and find the link there. They are more aimed at full virtual pinball cabinets, but a lot of info can be gleaned from them if you really want to know how to use Visual Pinball. That page also has a spreadsheet that points to locations for all the tables, corresponding backglasses as well as artwork if available.

I hope this helps a little.

Edited January 19, 2020 by JaysArcade

[Headrush69]

That is a very nice write up JaysArcade, I'm sure it will be very helpful.

I have my setup working. I had done all that and my problems were because I was setting up VP9, VPX and Future Pinball all at the same and missed 2 important things.

1) I had setup B2S in my VP9 table folder, but not in my VPX table folder. (or vice versa, can't remember)

2) VPX has an option to disable the B2S server in Preferences -> Configure Keys, Nudge, DOF.  I would have expected that option in the Video preferences.

I'd like to do a real virtual pinball cabinet some day, but for now this will have to do:

 

 

[JaysArcade]

Nice. There are so many settings, its easy to get lost. Glad you got it going.

I currently have 4 cabinets. the main one is an arcade cab running LB/BB. Another cab is a mini pacman I built for my son several years ago and has an older system still running a rock steady install of Hyperspin/Rocketlauncher. A bartop running a Pi image and the mini pinball cabinet running PinballY and is pinball only. Next I'd like to build a vertical oriented system with pinball and vertical MAME games using two monitors. The upper would display marquees and backglasses and anything else I could display up there. Still looking over on BYOAC for inspiration.

Edited January 19, 2020 by JaysArcade

[JaysArcade]

It just occurred to me that I didn't have a picture of them all together, so I set the bartop up with the others for a family picture. Unfortunately, except for the bartop, they all live in the garage.?

 

[Headrush69]

Very nice JaysArcade, wish I had the room for several machines. ?

It's definitively been interesting trying to accommodate so many different input and output systems in a workable arrangement into 1 machine.

I think I have it all covered: joysticks, game pads, light guns, trackball, spinner, steering wheel, pedals. Guess I just need some mirrors for Time Traveller holographic output now. ?

[JaysArcade]

Yes. And the most frustrating part for me was Retroarch changing controls every time I would reboot. I finally have it figured out though, thankfully. Looks like you have a nice set up going there.

I am out of room for cabinets now so trying to figure out what to do next....  Really want to built a vertical though.....

[ItchyRobot]

20 hours ago, JaysArcade said:

It just occurred to me that I didn't have a picture of them all together, so I set the bartop up with the others for a family picture. Unfortunately, except for the bartop, they all live in the garage.?

 

Nice, I am currently putting a plan together for a dedicated mini-pinball table like yours. I am going to base it around a 32" 120htz monitor... probably 2K'ish. What are you using for your plunger and nudges for the mini-pinball table you have? Did you build the table or buy it? (if bought, from where?) Size of the main screen?

[JaysArcade]

Built it myself. It's using a KL25Z device with the Pinscape firmware for nudge and plunger. Works perfectly. The plunger is attached to a linear potentiometer that is interfaced with the KL25Z. DOF is programmed to use ZB launch with the plunger for tables that use a launch button instead of an actual plunger. Basically sends the launch ball command when you pull the plunger instead of pulling the plunger back. That is one of my proudest accomplishments - not needing a launch ball button in addition to a plunger which I see a lot of builders do.

The main playfield is 27", backglass 19" and a 7" screen for the DMD. The monitors are only 1080p though.

It has 2 power supplies (3 if you count the one the PC uses). The LEDs require a lot of power.

Led-wiz for the buttons and speaker leds. Teensy controller for addressable LEDs for back matrix (this was another proud accomplishment. It is the only mini pinball table I've seen with Addressable LEDs).

It has some speaker subwoofer combo for the back glass speakers (can't remember what they are off the top of my head) in addition to two small Lepy 838 2.1 amps that provide surround sound tactile feedback to 5 exciters placed in the inside corners of the main box. SSF lets you "feel" the ball rolling around and "feel" the bumpers pop when the ball hits them as well as the flippers.

The PC is nothing special, under-powered if anything. The GPU is the main workhorse. It has a 1050 Ti for the graphics. That could be a little better as well but it works. Due to the low-ish specs of the PC, I'm running PinballY. Pinup Popper is probably the best pinball frontend but it is more designed for high end 4K systems. My PC struggled with it, but runs PinballY just fine. PinballY is a clone of PinballX. For my needs, it just seems to work better than PinballX.

This thing is so packed full of stuff, I don't think I could get any thing else in it, LOL. If I were to do anything different, I wouldn't have ordered the custom lockdown bar from VirtuaPin. It was one of the first things I ordered and literally the last thing to arrive - over 2 months, I would buy a real lockdown from ebay and have a local welder customize it for me before I ordered anything from them again.

The cab dimensions were all based off of this guy's cab. https://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=18420

Here are a few links to some of this stuff if anyone is interested in what any of it is.

DOF http://pinball.weilenmann.net/docu/DirectOutputWIP/index.html

Pinscape/KL25Z http://mjrnet.org/pinscape/index.html

SSF/Surround Sound Feedback https://www.facebook.com/groups/SSFeedback/