Moderator Guidelines and Contributor Rules

[Thanatos_Prime]

On 10/21/2023 at 2:43 PM, bpitt said:

I have a question about submitting changes.  Here is my situation:

• Game A and game B appear to be the same game from screenshots and research.
• Game A was released in 1983
• Game B was released in 1987
• Game B has game A as an alternate name as well as other alternate names

I was going to suggest deleting game A as it had less info (alternate names and publishers) but game A was released first (1983) and therefore here is my question: Should game A be the official name of the game as it was released first? 

If this is the case, I will submit deleting game B and add all alternate names and publishers to game A.

 

Give us links to both games and we can help you figure it out.

[bpitt]

On 10/26/2023 at 9:15 AM, Thanatos_Prime said:

Give us links to both games and we can help you figure it out.

The 2 games in question are Sea Hunt https://gamesdb.launchbox-app.com/games/details/28818-sea-hunt and Skindiver https://gamesdb.launchbox-app.com/games/details/83255-skindiver for Atari 2600.

[kurzih]

16 hours ago, bpitt said:

The 2 games in question are Sea Hunt https://gamesdb.launchbox-app.com/games/details/28818-sea-hunt and Skindiver https://gamesdb.launchbox-app.com/games/details/83255-skindiver for Atari 2600.

Looks to be the same game released in different years in different regions: http://www.atarimania.com/game-skindiver_s7227.html. I would suggest to delete Skindiver and keep Sea Hunt with more media https://gamesdb.launchbox-app.com/games/details/28818-sea-hunt and just change the release year from '87 to 1983
(even if the  American title, which is prioritized as the default title name over other regions, was released later - database rules says we need to have the first release date on the same platform, regardless of region)

Edited October 30, 2023 by kurzih

[bpitt]

Thank you for the info.  I did not know that the American title was prioritized as the default title name.   That bit of info is not listed in Moderator Guidelines and Contributor Rules pinned at the top of this forum.  May I ask where you learned that?  I would like to see the source to assure I am not missing any other rules as I contribute.

[bpitt]

Ok this is getting complicated.  It appears that someone has already submitted the changes kurzih suggested.  Meanwhile, I have also found a third game which I believe is also the same game as the 2 listed above.  https://gamesdb.launchbox-app.com/games/details/41029-scuba-diver.  Now this game is also an American title. This gives us:

Sea Hunt (1987 USA) https://gamesdb.launchbox-app.com/games/details/28818-sea-hunt

Skindiver (1983 GER )  Deleted

Scuba Diver (1983 USA) https://gamesdb.launchbox-app.com/games/details/41029-scuba-diver

So my question now becomes, with 2 different American releases, which should be the official title in LBDB.  Sea Hunt or Scuba Diver?

 

[Jakatsu]

1 hour ago, bpitt said:

Thank you for the info.  I did not know that the American title was prioritized as the default title name.   That bit of info is not listed in Moderator Guidelines and Contributor Rules pinned at the top of this forum.  May I ask where you learned that?  I would like to see the source to assure I am not missing any other rules as I contribute.

There are tooltips which explain every field, but they're only visible when you're adding a new game to the DB.

[neil9000]

1 hour ago, bpitt said:

Ok this is getting complicated.  It appears that someone has already submitted the changes kurzih suggested.  Meanwhile, I have also found a third game which I believe is also the same game as the 2 listed above.  https://gamesdb.launchbox-app.com/games/details/41029-scuba-diver.  Now this game is also an American title. This gives us:

Sea Hunt (1987 USA) https://gamesdb.launchbox-app.com/games/details/28818-sea-hunt

Skindiver (1983 GER )  Deleted

Scuba Diver (1983 USA) https://gamesdb.launchbox-app.com/games/details/41029-scuba-diver

So my question now becomes, with 2 different American releases, which should be the official title in LBDB.  Sea Hunt or Scuba Diver?

 

Usually original release would take precedent, but back in these "old days" it wasnt unusual for different games to have the same name, or worse still the same game to get re-released, but under a completely different developer or publisher, there was some real wild west stuff back then. Do the best you can, but never delete/overwrite unless well sourced.

 

[neil9000]

2 minutes ago, Jakatsu said:

There are tooltips which explain every field, but they're only visible when you're adding a new game to the DB.

Interesting, that should always be there as far as im concerned, ill bug @C-Beats on this one, knowing full well he has no control here, but better access to the peeps that do.   Tool tips should always be available.

[bpitt]

27 minutes ago, Jakatsu said:

There are tooltips which explain every field, but they're only visible when you're adding a new game to the DB.

Thank you.  I would have never found that.  Now, I see the 3rd game (Scuba Diver) is in moderation for deletion.  I guess someone has been reading my posts and submitting my finds.  I wish I knew if that was done to assist me or if someone is scanning the forums for ideas on contributions.  lol.  Either way, thank you all who responded.

[neil9000]

6 minutes ago, bpitt said:

I guess someone has been reading my posts and submitting my finds.

Please also be very aware that trolls exist...

 

[Thanatos_Prime]

While we are on the subject here I would like to bring up that if you have 2 games that look the same, but they have 2 different developers, I would expect that they would be considered different games. Thoughts?

[neil9000]

1 minute ago, Thanatos_Prime said:

While we are on the subject here I would like to bring up that if you have 2 games that look the same, but they have 2 different developers, I would expect that they would be considered different games. Thoughts?

 

40 minutes ago, neil9000 said:

, but back in these "old days" it wasnt unusual for different games to have the same name, or worse still the same game to get re-released, but under a completely different developer or publisher, there was some real wild west stuff back then.

Yup, shulda made that clearer myself, different publisher = different game, unless hard evidence to the contrary.

[bpitt]

12 minutes ago, Thanatos_Prime said:

While we are on the subject here I would like to bring up that if you have 2 games that look the same, but they have 2 different developers, I would expect that they would be considered different games. Thoughts?

According to the pinned guidelines (See below), I disagree.  Furthermore, that's why the db allows you to add multiple developers to a single game.

1. A game should only have 1 entry per platform.
   • Multiple Disc games don't get entries per disc. Still 1 entry.
   • Special Editions only get a unique entry on the Database if the game is significantly different than the already existing entry. I.e. Fallout 3 and Fallout 3 Game of the Year Edition would be two separate entries.

 

[neil9000]

15 minutes ago, bpitt said:

According to the pinned guidelines (See below), I disagree.  Furthermore, that's why the db allows you to add multiple developers to a single game.

1. A game should only have 1 entry per platform.
   • Multiple Disc games don't get entries per disc. Still 1 entry.
   • Special Editions only get a unique entry on the Database if the game is significantly different than the already existing entry. I.e. Fallout 3 and Fallout 3 Game of the Year Edition would be two separate entries.

 

I disagree with your interpretation of that. Developers and Publishers are two very different things, it was not unheard of in those days for people to just steal and republish games.

Can i ask what your end goal is in this conversation, you seem to want accuracy, a noble goal, but we all do, so how is this better achieved in your opinion?

[Thanatos_Prime]

Yes, normally if they do NOT have the same developer, then they are different games. The ones linked above, where one is now deleted had different developers. And the Scuba Diver and Sea Hunt 2600 games where Scuba Diver is currently on the chopping block have two different developers. I again am voting NOT to merge the two for this reason.

 

https://gamesdb.launchbox-app.com/games/details/41029-scuba-diver

https://gamesdb.launchbox-app.com/games/details/28818-sea-hunt

[neil9000]

12 minutes ago, Thanatos_Prime said:

Yes, normally if they do NOT have the same developer, then they are different games. The ones linked above, where one is now deleted had different developers. And the Scuba Diver and Sea Hunt 2600 games where Scuba Diver is currently on the chopping block have two different developers. I again am voting NOT to merge the two for this reason.

 

https://gamesdb.launchbox-app.com/games/details/41029-scuba-diver

https://gamesdb.launchbox-app.com/games/details/28818-sea-hunt

Agreed, 

 

[LonestarK]

14 minutes ago, Thanatos_Prime said:

The ones linked above, where one is now deleted had different developers. And the Scuba Diver and Sea Hunt 2600 games where Scuba Diver is currently on the chopping block have two different developers. I again am voting NOT to merge the two for this reason.

They have different publishers, Froggo, John Sands, Panda, Zellers, & Tang's. The developer is the same: Sancho. And every title screen from each of these different regions/re-releases features Sancho's copyright.

[bpitt]

33 minutes ago, neil9000 said:

Can i ask what your end goal is in this conversation, you seem to want accuracy, a noble goal, but we all do, so how is this better achieved in your opinion?

My goal is to have a clear understanding of the rules so that I can make sure that my contributions do not break any rules.  Also, once I understand the rules, I can make a final decision on whether or not I will consider the LBDB my bible.   My OCD is making this complicated as I have the blessing/curse of being a perfectionist.

12 minutes ago, Thanatos_Prime said:

normally if they do NOT have the same developer, then they are different games.

For my further understanding, why does the db allow multiple developers on a single game if they would then be considered different games?  If these are in fact different games (according to rules) then, I'm afraid I may be doing more harm than good (which is definitely not my intention).

BTW, thank you for understanding.  I have been using LB for under 1 year and this is my first time on the forums.

[LonestarK]

4 minutes ago, bpitt said:

why does the db allow multiple developers on a single game if they would then be considered different games?

collaborations happen.  Also some studios may begin development that then gets completed by another but the first group's work was so fundamental that they still get credited.

[MJF]

There should also be a rule that states that video links submitted in the video link field should be straight gameplay videos (or trailers) and not game review/commentary videos. I've noticed that someone has been adding game review videos to C64 games lately, and to make matters worse, they aren't even in ENGLISH. They are in POLISH, which is a language spoken by a small minority of LB users.

Edited February 13 by MJF