DOS76 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 you are correct we are generally intolerant towards intolerance. I'm an atheist personally but I have no agenda to say no one can believe in god or that they must think what I think. If you don't like the bible quote vote with your dollars and don't buy the product that is your one and only option if you are truly offended by it. As the creator of the software Jason holds the right to put what ever he feels fit into his program and if that in turn alienates users and makes people choose not to buy the product that is the risk he takes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil9000 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, ColonelSandres said: Yet how would you feel if you noticed that your grocery receipts had quotes from the Quran printed on them? I couldnt care less. I personally am not religious in the slightest bit, and couldnt give a toss that there is a bible quote in a part of the app i never even see. If Jason wants to add the quotes to his software he is entirely his prerogative to do so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelSandres Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 1 minute ago, DOS76 said: you are correct we are generally intolerant towards intolerance. I'm an atheist personally but I have no agenda to say no one can believe in god or that they must think what I think. If you don't like the bible quote vote with your dollars and don't buy the product that is your one and only option if you are truly offended by it. As the creator or the software Jason holds the right to put what ever he feels fit into his program and if that in turn alienates users and makes people choose not to buy the product that is the risk he takes. With the greatest possible respect, you've just dodged a number of the issues I've raised: - If you think it important that you have no agenda to say what people must think, why are you not inserting quotes about atheism in your signature? - Some/many people will have already bought the product without being made aware that they will receive Bible quotes in the software and from the mailing list. That is specifically taking away choice - Just because Jason can do this and has the legal right to do this does not mean he has the moral or religious right to do this Essentially your argument is "Tough luck, it's your problem" which doesn't (and I'm not making fun by saying this) exactly seem like what Jesus would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelSandres Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 1 minute ago, neil9000 said: I couldnt care less. I personally am not religious in the slightest bit, and couldnt give a toss that there is a bible quote in a part of the app i never even see. If Jason wants to add the quotes to his software he is entirely his prerogative to do so. As I said, it's in the mailouts as well. You can't find out about updates to the product you paid for unless you accept these words in your inbox. You seem to again be dictating how others should feel based on how you do. Once again this is absolutely not tolerance or understanding. Not having religion doesn't mean you can't have empathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil9000 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 1 minute ago, ColonelSandres said: You seem to again be dictating how others should feel based on how you do. No, that is what you seem to be doing by not allowing people to express there religious beliefs in a product they make. 2 minutes ago, ColonelSandres said: Once again this is absolutely not tolerance or understanding. Sounds to me like you are the one with a complete lack of tolerance. As stated i'm not religious but have no issues with people who are, they can believe what they want to, doesnt mean i have to believe it also, but i can at least allow them that belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro808 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 I'm just here for the entertainment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelSandres Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, neil9000 said: No, that is what you seem to be doing by not allowing people to express there religious beliefs in a product they make. Sounds to me like you are the one with a complete lack of tolerance. As stated i'm not religious but have no issues with people who are, they can believe what they want to, doesnt mean i have to believe it also, but i can at least allow them that belief. You are coming across as quite aggressive. That aside, you won't be able to quote me where I've said anywhere that people are not allowed to express their religious beliefs or where I have stopped them from doing so. I particularly challenge you to prove when I've said they can't hold those beliefs, as you've claimed. It's not whether people can, it's whether it's appropriate and whether that invades other people's right to not hear those views. That's especially true, as I've said, for those people who paid unknowingly. Just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should. These messages are coming not just into their software (which yes they don't have to read) but their inboxes too. Your advocating religious messages in emulation software removes my right to not see or hear religious messages in an appropriate setting if I choose to. You are seeing the argument from one side and one side alone. Whatever your beliefs, that again isn't tolerance in any form. Edited October 4, 2019 by ColonelSandres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. RetroLust Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Once, when I was young I was rebelling against almost anything, including religion; because of all the wars and what not that humanity did with religion in history, I disliked religion so much that I called myself a satanist (yeah wearing black and liking metal you know) lol not that I practiced anything of that nature though, it was just an expression of being anti-evil doing, go figure Now that i'm grown up I finally see the middle road of individuals that do good things out of their own principles and beliefs that include religion, I can say for certain that if more people where like Jason the world would be a better place, including letting people be whom they want to be as long as it is out of a good heart, if that means bible quotes i'm all for it because I know it comes from a good heart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro808 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelSandres Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, Mr. RetroLust said: Once, when I was young I was rebelling against almost anything, including religion; because of all the wars and what not that humanity did with religion in history, I disliked religion so much that I called myself a satanist (yeah wearing black and liking metal you know) lol not that I practiced anything of that nature though, it was just an expression of being anti-evil doing, go figure Now that i'm grown up I finally see the middle road of individuals that do good things out of their own principles and beliefs that include religion, I can say for certain that if more people where like Jason the world would be a better place, including letting people be whom they want to be as long as it is out of a good heart, if that means bible quotes i'm all for it because I know it comes from a good heart. Forcing others to consider your beliefs in a setting where they were not invited and should not be expected may not be the root of all evil, but no-one is claiming as much. That logic still doesn't mean it's an appropriate (or right) thing to do. Personally, I think it's great that Jason overcame depression and if he believes God helped him do this then great. But however well-meaning it might seem to the sender, Jason doesn't know who he's sending these things out to. He cannot know the effect it'll have. Some people may find it genuinely distressing for reasons you have no right to contemplate. Personally, I believe that animals shouldn't suffer but that doesn't mean I'm going to use this forum to graphically list out the kinds of animal cruelty that take place every day. I wouldn't just tell you not to read it. I'd take responsibility at source. By doing so I respect your right to only expect that in a setting where it's relevant or related. This is the flip side of the argument that makes those saying "Jason can do what he wants with his software" are, whether they like being called it or not, 100% intolerant of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. RetroLust Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 However, if you don't like certain things in life (or this product) you can do something about it; accept it, fight it or move on. Choice, although fighting it would not give you much in return. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelSandres Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mr. RetroLust said: However, if you don't like certain things in life (or this product) you can do something about it; accept it, fight it or move on. Choice, although fighting it would not give you much in return. This is just a variant of the "tough luck" argument which absolves all responsibilty for Jason's decisions and in doing so, negates your claim about it supposedly coming from a good place. You can argue for his right to make decisions regardless of other people's feelings, or to be genuinely considerate towards others, but not both in the exact same action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. RetroLust Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, ColonelSandres said: This is just a variant of the "tough luck" argument which absolves all responsibilty for Jason's decisions and in doing so, negates your claim about it supposedly coming from a good place. You can argue for his right to make decisions regardless of other people's feelings, or to be genuinely considerate towards others, but not both in the exact same action. So you just joined this forum 2 hours ago and demand and know so much, wow, good luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItchyRobot Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, ColonelSandres said: This is just a variant of the "tough luck" argument which absolves all responsibilty for Jason's decisions and in doing so, negates your claim about it supposedly coming from a good place. You can argue for his right to make decisions regardless of other people's feelings, or to be genuinely considerate towards others, but not both in the exact same action. Ugh, you came back? Please just disappear. Even the atheists and agnostics of this community are annoyed by you... including myself. Again, please go get that OCD checked out; it's going to continue to walk you into unnecessary arguments for your entire life if you let it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelSandres Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, ItchyRobot said: Ugh, you came back? Please just disappear. Even the atheists and agnostics of this community are annoyed by you... including myself. Again, please go get that OCD checked out; it's going to continue to walk you into unnecessary arguments for your entire life if you let it. There's no need to be nasty and make ad homimen attacks on strangers just because you don't agree with them. I'd argue that's very much against the message of what Jason is trying to achieve in the first place. At least you clicked on a forum topic about the religious beliefs being inserted into a software program and got exactly what you expected. No-one forced you to, remember. Try behaving more how you would in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil9000 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Locking this thread now as its just turning into personal attacks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOS76 Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 This is a fucking senseless argument that has no winner and will just go back and forth and back and forth so basically like I said earlier TOUGH LUCK if you don't like it go somewhere else because you argument is falling on deaf ears. Maybe its because I'm from America and free speech is one of the cornerstones of our republic that asking him to remove the quote is tantamount to censorship and censorship is the beginning of tyranny. Just because you don't agree with someone doesn't mean they don't have the right to say what they want. I was going to lock the thread like Neil did since you keep repeating yourself and are obviously just looking for someone to argue with. Like my mother always tells me if I want to argue go become a fucking lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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