Roms on a NAS

[SiriusVI]

Hey everyone,

I'm a total noob when it comes to NAS Servers and I haven't been able to understand if what I'm trying to achieve is possible with a NSA server.

So here is what I would like to do:

1. I want to have a Server that stores all my roms and can be accessed from anywhere online at all times.

2. I want to run Launchbox and emulators locally from a device (Tablet, Phone, Laptop, Desktop) but access the roms from the NAS

3. I don't want to deal with performance slowdowns due to the roms being stored on the NAS.

Can I achieve this with a NAS Server? If so, which NAS server would you recommend?

Thanks for helping 😃

Edited December 12, 2021 by SiriusVI

[sundogak]

Having the ROMs/Images on NAS is usually not an issue, particularly anything non-CD based.  The time needed to pull a relatively small size ROM file for cart based systems isn't a big issue and the lag would be at the beginning of the game so once running wouldn't see any difference.  The bottleneck will be images and media caching if that is not done locally. If you run LB locally then won't have issues there. One thing to think about is how to synchronize the local LB setups as well as emulators on the local setups (if at all).  Something like FreeFileSync works well to sync media to the other local installs.

Also, for CD based emulation (or MAME CHDs), those files are much larger so if you have slow network or doing wireless that can lag on retrieving parts and pieces. So, a key piece is what your network speed is as well as what type of emulation you are wanting to do. There are a couple threads here with people's experience and for some it isn't a big deal with lag. For me, when first tried it, the lag was noticeable on a wireless setup (several years ago generation wise on wireless). 

However, I haven't been running games off the Synology and use it strictly as a "master file backup". I then use FreeFileSync to sync the 3 different setups from the master:  1) kids - stripped down simple games  2)TV Room  - subset of games good to play on large screen  3) main PC with full setup. For setups 1 and 2, rarely change them so those are pretty static and size wise the installs are small since not the whole rom set. I did this originally since the place we were living in at the time was all wireless to the clients and I just couldn't get good consistent speed to the NAS (upstairs..far side of house). So, I just did local installs inclusive of any games/ROMs. My main PC and the NAS have full sets of each because I had too much time invested to lose my setup (i.e., have a backup..Synology has a file sync tool to do this as well). This new place has wiring to each room and can mostly get 2.5 Gb speeds to clients as well as have 10 Gb cards on the Synology's. I did some test, and works well off the Synology only, but just haven't bothered messing with the all local setups since "they work".  

As for the NAS type/brand, almost any of the major ones will work fine so really comes down to price/size of NAS you want. In past used ReadyNAS and currently use Synology 1819+ and an older 1817+.  QNAP also makes reputable systems.  The bottleneck on the NAS with 10 Gb network cards becomes the drives, even at 7200 rpm (unless $$ and use SSDs).  

So with all that, any slowdowns you see will not be limited by the NAS but will be your home network speed to get to the NAS data.  Flakey wireless? Then likely not going to be happy with anything CD based. Cart based should work well over most any setups assuming you locally install the media, emulators, and LB.  Fast network/hard line at 2.5 Gb to 10 Gb range, then wouldn't be much different in performance to USB external drive.  

Edited December 12, 2021 by sundogak

[SiriusVI]

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer.

I've looked up this Synology device.: https://www.synology.com/en-us/products/DS1821+

Would that be a device I could use? I guess it is an update from the 1819+, correct?

Will I be able to make the drives show up a PC as though they were HDDs?

[sundogak]

Correct, the 1821+ is the newer version of the 8-bay series (which is the DS18## designation) that came out this year. The 1821 has a faster CPU versus the 1819+.  I would always go with as many bays as you can afford initially even if you don't plan on filling. The 8-bay seems to be sweet spot versus the pricier 12-bay. 

The most common way to get files to other clients is you setup a shared folder that is then visible on your home network.  Then you can map that folder to your clients (Apple, Linux, Microsoft).  For client machines, you then see the NAS like another computer on the network and then under that you will see folders that are shared.  To keep things consistent, I map all my shares on the NAS consistently across all clients.  You can set permissions to the folders to however way you want (everyone, particular users or groups, read only, etc). For home setup, I keep simple and block all WAN access (i.e., outside home net).  

What Windows sees on home my network with the 1819 and 1817 units (you can name whatever want):

After you map a drive in Windows to folder on NAS (you can make any drive letter that is available):

You can also setup as an iSCSI drive to make the client think the folder/drive on the NAS is actually just like a connected physical drive, but I have never messed with all that so cannot share much info there.  Shared folders like above work with any emulation I have dealt with as well as works okay with SYMLINKS on Windows.  However, there are some modern PC game clients, namely BattleNet and EA/Origin, that will refuse to run on a shared NAS folder "because it causes issues" per those game publishers (which is baloney).  That would be case where iSCSI might work, but again haven't tried (I just keep PC games local...plus modern games larger/need fast access).  

Drive wise you should make sure to stick with actual NAS drives particularly if in the 8-bay realm or larger. These things will be running 24/7.  Seagate IronWolf, Seagate EXOS (enterprise, cheaper but noisier), and WD Reds. I have used all at one point or another (can intermix) but mostly using Seagate since WD seems to be consistently pricier. The Reds seem to be the quietest with the Seagate's you will hear a lot of "drive heads moving around" if you have the NAS on your desk. Depends on your sensitivity to those things. Also, RAID can "feel" like a backup system, but it isn't. It is simply drive redundancy where if a drive dies the whole NAS doesn't lose data. The key is you have to swap out the faulty one with a new one and with a large multi-TB partition it can take DAYS to rebuild. While it is rebuilding if you lose another drive (or two depending on how setup if use SHR), then you lose all data.  Having a spare HD of same size as your installed sets helps (they tend to die when everyone is out of stock...or high prices due to whatever supply chain issue).  I am also religious about if the drive testing starts (does on schedule you set) showing any drive errors, I swap it out. Even if you have backups, just replacing everything can take a long time to replace TBs of data.  

If go Synology, you will also need to decide on RAID type since you are fixed with that decision unless you nuke the whole storage pool (basically, wipe and reformat).  You can use normal RAID, or Synology's "flavor" which has some advantages.  I have mine all set to Synology Hybrid Raid (SHR) which is basically RAID 5 but allows swapping out larger drives and partition will be resized (over multiple days).  

Anyway, all seems daunting at first but once you get the hang of it, they are cool tools and handy for storage as well as useful for various Apps including running Docker.

Edit: I should also mention you can "roll your own" NAS with things like UnRaid and FreeNAS. I looked into them way back (sure they have matured) and can get a cheaper/more flexible NAS versus QNAP or Synology. Although comfortable building that sort of stuff, I just wanted something that would "work" with minimal hassle.  The tradeoff is pricier versus home brew relative to feature set and you are locked into the Synology and QNAP way of things which are modified Linux kernels.  

Edited December 13, 2021 by sundogak
Added in comment on UnRAID/FreeNAS

[SiriusVI]

Thanks so much for your great insights. I guess I'll safe up for the 8-bay NAS. It's currently too expensive for me, but I'll get there eventually.

One more thing. I don't want to run anything in RAID mode and I also don't want to run the NAS 24/7. What I want is to be able to switch it on and off whenever I need it. If I go on vacation, I'll switch it on, so I can access it from wherever I am. I have plenty of spare drives that I can use for backup, so I don't need an automatic backup system and I don't want to deal with an automatic rebuild system. That sounds like it's gonna fail and introduces errors.
If something gets lost forever, I guess I'll just have to redownload it.

[sundogak]

If you are using it for that limited use case, then you might look at the smaller bay units (2 bay or 4 bay).  Particularly if using in "JBOD" (just a bunch of disks) mode and not using RAID you will not lose any capacity due to RAID redundancy.  I wouldn't recommend doing non-RAID on anything +4 disks and larger unless you REALLY don't care about your time and data. Even if you have data or access to replacement, there is typically the time factor of getting it into use form/tagging, etc as well as physical time to copy back/download.  

If you have an 8-disk bay unit in non-RAID volume across all drives, and any of the 8 drives has corrupt data or dies, you lose data across entire volume. I have had hard drives die, but never any issues with RAID itself, particularly if using off the shelf RAID setup like QNAP or Synology. Now if you are keeping off NAS off most times then drive wear and tear will be less, so maybe for your use case not a big deal.  Just something to consider.  

Also, if intention is to use WAN access, make sure you got permissions/NAS firewall set correctly to avoid idiots who have nothing else better to do than mess with people's stuff.  

[The Papaw]

Not sure if it is of any help, but I run most everything from a NAS. I have a old Dell PC (started with a RPi3 I think), installed OMV5 (it's free) on it. I have a 14TB external HDD attached to it for roms and a 2TB external HDD attached for the media. (I have other drives attached for other things as well, like a MediaSonic Pro Raid that hosts all my video, music and such, another 12TB in raid 5) and I use the internal drives I have installed in the PC for backups.

I have LB/BB and all my emulators installed a primary desktop PC, then I use Syncthings to send it to all the other devices (I exclude some of the setting files in BB (especially the cache files) and emulator config files. That way no one writes over others game saves and settings. Works great for me. If I want to update LB/BB or an emulator, I just make a copy of the folder before I update it so I can go back if something goes wrong. What's cool about it, when I update LB or an emulator on the main PC, it updates it on all the PCs. 

I don't use anything wifi on the gaming side and the speeds are as always like any other external drive. Just some other ideas that may be helpful.

 

[DeadVoivod]

I like Synology products, I had Qnap before, then I switched to Synology, price quality wise it's better in my opinion. I'm using a DS2413+

[Chris Kant]

On 12/17/2021 at 6:56 PM, DeadVoivod said:

I like Synology products, I had Qnap before, then I switched to Synology, price quality wise it's better in my opinion. I'm using a DS2413+

do you or others have tried a raspberry pi 4 NAS solution for this?

[The Papaw]

29 minutes ago, Chris Kant said:

do you or others have tried a raspberry pi 4 NAS solution for this?

Yes, if you read my post above, I was using a Pi, I think it was a Pi4 though, not a Pi3 with Open Media Vault. I only moved it to a PC about 6 months back. When I moved it to a PC, I just installed OMV to a external SSD and moved all my external drives to it.

Edited December 27, 2021 by The Papaw

[Tanoshimi]

On 12/17/2021 at 11:23 AM, The Papaw said:

Not sure if it is of any help, but I run most everything from a NAS. I have a old Dell PC (started with a RPi3 I think), installed OMV5 (it's free) on it. I have a 14TB external HDD attached to it for roms and a 2TB external HDD attached for the media. (I have other drives attached for other things as well, like a MediaSonic Pro Raid that hosts all my video, music and such, another 12TB in raid 5) and I use the internal drives I have installed in the PC for backups.

I have LB/BB and all my emulators installed a primary desktop PC, then I use Syncthings to send it to all the other devices (I exclude some of the setting files in BB (especially the cache files) and emulator config files. That way no one writes over others game saves and settings. Works great for me. If I want to update LB/BB or an emulator, I just make a copy of the folder before I update it so I can go back if something goes wrong. What's cool about it, when I update LB or an emulator on the main PC, it updates it on all the PCs. 

I don't use anything wifi on the gaming side and the speeds are as always like any other external drive. Just some other ideas that may be helpful.

 

I'm looking to install games once, and be able to play them on all my machines, rather than having to install them in several locations.  I like this solution.  But I have questions:

1. Will it work with PC games requiring full installation?
2. Will it work with Steam and other services?  
3. I'm not looking to clone the computer entirely, just the game aspects.  I have a dedicated GAME computer, and I want to be able to run LB on my Desktop and get all of the games that are installed on the GAME computer, but clearly I still need my Desktop to run as it is.  Will Syncthing clone the entire machine, or just keep LB/BB up to date?

[The Papaw]

2 hours ago, Tanoshimi said:

I'm looking to install games once, and be able to play them on all my machines, rather than having to install them in several locations.  I like this solution.  But I have questions:

1. Will it work with PC games requiring full installation?
2. Will it work with Steam and other services?  
3. I'm not looking to clone the computer entirely, just the game aspects.  I have a dedicated GAME computer, and I want to be able to run LB on my Desktop and get all of the games that are installed on the GAME computer, but clearly I still need my Desktop to run as it is.  Will Syncthing clone the entire machine, or just keep LB/BB up to date?

The problem with Windows games is they needed installed on each Windows machine, as they make changes to things like the registry. I use Syncthing to clone LB/BB and exclude the 2 LB & BB settings files, the cache folders, etc. I use it on all the emulators I use, and again, exclude certain files, such as game save locations. That way each PC has its own LB/BB settings, such as themes and one PC doesn't overwrite someone elses game saves.

It does take a little elbow work to set it all up, but it saves so much time in the end for me. For example, I can update Cemu or Yuzu on my main PC, if all runs well, I then drop a copy of it into a shared folder on my NAS that I run Syncthings from, it then delivers the updates to all the PC's in the house (3 others).  I could have Syncthings do it from my PC and eliminate a step, but this way, if I update my PC and something goes wrong, it doesn't spread the problem throughout the house. Syncthings works on a folder/file basis. You choose what you wish to share and with what device, the secondary device then must accept what device 1 want to share with it. Syncthings will even share with Android if I'm not mistaken?

As far as the Windows games, I have a shared folder on my NAS where I store them and allow all the PC's on my network access to them, then I use NoMachine to remote into the other PC's and install them that way. 

I seldom use Steam so can't be of much help with that, sorry

[Baggio]

@The Papaw I'm thinking about building a Unraid NAS to store my ever growing ROM collection on.  What I'm looking to do is use just my main PC to run Launchbox/Bigbox and the various emulators on accessing the Roms from the NAS.

How do the newer emus run when accessing the Roms over a NAS?  Do you have any issues with that?

[The Papaw]

7 minutes ago, PaulyC said:

@The Papaw I'm thinking about building a Unraid NAS to store my ever growing ROM collection on.  What I'm looking to do is use just my main PC to run Launchbox/Bigbox and the various emulators on accessing the Roms from the NAS.

How do the newer emus run when accessing the Roms over a NAS?  Do you have any issues with that?

I have all my roms on my NAS and am using the following emulators without any issues:

• Cemu
• Citra
• Dolphin
• Duckstation
• MFME
• PCSX2
• RetroArch
• RPCS3
• Ryujinx
• Xemu
• Xenia
• Yuzu

This biggest place I had an issue was media for LB (images, videos, etc.). I have 4 PC's on the network that each have LB and was sharing art via the NAS, but it was making themes a bit slower, but that could just be my network/NAS. The media itself for my LB collection is almost 500gb, so by using it on each PC, that's a lot of wasted space on the PC's, ya know. Every now and again, an update in RPCS3 will mess things up, but I can report it on github and they usually have it fixed in a couple hours.

I have a 18TB drive (16TB used) just for roms. All the above emulators are using that single drive via shared smb folders on the NAS. Hope this helps. More than happy to help in any way I can.

[Baggio]

4 minutes ago, The Papaw said:

I have all my roms on my NAS and am using the following emulators without any issues:

• Cemu
• Citra
• Dolphin
• Duckstation
• MFME
• PCSX2
• RetroArch
• RPCS3
• Ryujinx
• Xemu
• Xenia
• Yuzu

This biggest place I had an issue was media for LB (images, videos, etc.). I have 4 PC's on the network that each have LB and was sharing art via the NAS, but it was making themes a bit slower, but that could just be my network/NAS. The media itself for my LB collection is almost 500gb, so by using it on each PC, that's a lot of wasted space on the PC's, ya know. Every now and again, an update in RPCS3 will mess things up, but I can report it on github and they usually have it fixed in a couple hours.

I have a 18TB drive (16TB used) just for roms. All the above emulators are using that single drive via shared smb folders on the NAS. Hope this helps. More than happy to help in any way I can.

That is exactly the answer I was looking for thanks.   I'm extremely new to all this NAS stuff so forgive my ignorance, Just a question for clarification about the last thing you said.  Are your emulators and the ROMs on the NAS?  You said you have a 18TB drive for ROMS and the emus are using that single drive so its confused me lol

The media side will be fine for me because it'll all be on the main PC with LB/BB  👍

[The Papaw]

4 minutes ago, PaulyC said:

That is exactly the answer I was looking for thanks.   I'm extremely new to all this NAS stuff so forgive my ignorance, Just a question for clarification about the last thing you said.  Are your emulators and the ROMs on the NAS?  You said you have a 18TB drive for ROMS and the emus are using that single drive so its confused me lol

The media side will be fine for me because it'll all be on the main PC with LB/BB  👍

Only my Roms are on the NAS (you can do the artwork, music, manuals and videos as well). If you put your media on the NAS, it will slow BB down a bit if you have a large collection. I had my media on the NAS for a couple years, but just moved it back to the PC's. 

As far as the NAS, look into Open Media Vault (100% free) and pretty easy to get it setup and running if you have a spare old PC or raspberry pi. I started with a pi, but now use an old Dell PC, more reliable.

[Baggio]

3 minutes ago, The Papaw said:

Only my Roms are on the NAS (you can do the artwork, music, manuals and videos as well). If you put your media on the NAS, it will slow BB down a bit if you have a large collection. I had my media on the NAS for a couple years, but just moved it back to the PC's. 

As far as the NAS, look into Open Media Vault (100% free) and pretty easy to get it setup and running if you have a spare old PC or raspberry pi. I started with a pi, but now use an old Dell PC, more reliable.

Brilliant.   Luckily i kept all my old setup before i upgraded so still have my old 3570k CPU, 16GB RAM, Micro ATX mobo with 8 sata ports and a PSU.  I usually sell all my old parts but this time i didn't as i thought this may do to build a cab but now it's going to be a NAS lol.  I just need some Hdds and a case (which is on its way already) and I'm away.

Thanks for the heads up on Open Media Vault, i'll check it out.

[The Papaw]

Your quite welcome, glad to help. That PC will be great. Let us know how it turns out 

[Baggio]

10 hours ago, The Papaw said:

Your quite welcome, glad to help. That PC will be great. Let us know how it turns out 

Thanks buddy, will do.

[Baggio]

@The Papaw Hi bud,  how are you accessing yours roms via launchbox?  Have you just shared a folder then mapped it to a drive from the NAS and edited your .xmls to point your game to that mapped drive?

I have all mine almost set up now. I went with unraid in the end and am just waiting for the parity drive to finish building then a can transfer it over and mass edit my .xmls lol

Edited February 15, 2023 by PaulyC