faeran

I assume you are referring to FFMPEG and not WMP. Either way, if you'd like to help, you can post your logs here, along with all the event viewer crashes, as we can take a look at it for you. However, it's funny you say that because the most amount of problems we ever had was due to VLC back in the day. It was crazy times. Different experiences for different people, with different hardware, but like I said earlier in this thread, a huge change to FFMPEG is coming probably in 13.28 that will get rid of all the remaining outlier issues with it when it comes down to hardware specific compatibility playback issues.

Probably not this release, and while I can't promise anything, there's already a branch in the early stages. Just know that it requires a complete rework of the entire system, but there's some big things coming around the corner.

Thanks for the report. Based on what I see in there it's basically saying that it tried to run a video and something with your hardware/drivers are basically providing a "we can't play this file" response. With FFMPEG, it lives lower in the stack which means hardware configuration can have a big impact. That's kind of outside of what we can do, in the sense that your crashing isn't caused by something that we can fix inside of our code. We do have plans to fix that somewhat, although it won't make it into this update, since it will involve a fairly extensive FFMPEG wrapper and program update, but I do think that it will end up solving a lot of hardware related crashes like the one you are showing. In the short term, make sure all your drivers are updated and all that regular stuff, and like you said, WMP is the much safer option, as it's the native WPF engine that performs lighter in general. All that to say, stay tuned. That's good to hear. Sounds like me spending an entire month of straight attract mode crash fixing at least is paying off for someone! Good to hear about the rom prioritization work is working good for you. I agree with showing the RetroAchievement badge even when the supported game is an additional app, although maybe I'd go even one step further. I'll see what I can do!

There's a potential fix in this beta for that. Let us know if that solves that particular issue. With this change, any ROM that is extracted by LaunchBox will be placed into a folder named after the original file’s parent folder RetroArch also has its own ability to extract ROM files and play them by default, so another user option could be to simply disable LaunchBox's extraction process within the emulator options page.

LaunchBox 13.27 beta thread has been opened:

Hi everyone, Welcome to a new beta round. Beta 1 starts with a bunch of under-the-hood improvements to the app, and we would love any help you can give to make the app the best it can be. We are looking at roughly 3-4 betas this round with larger features coming with Beta 2. ⚠️ As of Beta 2: For those who heavily utilized the save backup features in previous versions, please refer to this migration guide carefully before upgrading to this beta. There have been some structural changes that affect how saves are managed. This guide talks you though everything you need to know. ⚠️ https://feedback.launchbox.gg/help/articles/5615549-1327-save-management-migration-guide Beta 1 Things we need help testing Beta 1 Added RetroAchievements support for WiiWare titles when using Dolphin - While signed into RetroAchievements, import your Nintendo WiiWare titles, then run Tools > Achievements > Scan and confirm achievement badges are assigned. Verify achievements load and function as expected in the Game Details pane (beta 1) Updated Dolphin integration to better support newer versions - Using the Dolphin plugin, attempt to download or update to the latest available version of Dolphin such as version 2603a or newer and confirm everything installs correctly and games still launch without issues (beta 1) Improved ROM prioritization when combining multiple versions of the same game during import - Run a ROM import that includes multiple versions of the same game such as betas, demos, or different regions and confirm the final imported game selects a proper retail release as the primary version and respects your Region Priority settings (beta 1) LaunchBox system tray support is now free for all users - As a free user, enable system tray options such as minimize to tray and close to tray then confirm LaunchBox minimizes and closes to the tray correctly and that the tray icon right click menu is fully functional and responsive (beta 1) Improved Big Box video playback stability with FFMPEG and Windows Media Player - In Big Box, browse platforms and games that include videos using both video engines optionally enable attract mode and confirm the application remains stable over extended use without crashes or video related issues (beta 1) Beta 2 RetroAchievements received a major expansion across LaunchBox and Big Box - While signed into RetroAchievements, browse Game Details, achievement profile views, pause screens, and default Big Box views to confirm beaten/mastered status, playtime commitment details, filters, and related stats all load and behave as expected Save Management has been significantly expanded - Test save tracking, backups, backup history, and restore workflows with supported Dolphin and PCSX2 games, and verify RetroArch Saturn saves continue to be detected and grouped correctly The Welcome Wizard import flow has been overhauled - Run through a fresh wizard import and pay attention to staged progress, status messaging, retry behavior, media download limits, and persistent image download queue handling Xbox 360 and PS3 now support additional formats - For Xbox, try importing default.xex and Games on Demand titles - For PS3, try importing ISO files - and confirm game detection, naming, and import results make sense Steam trailer downloads have been restored and LaunchBox video playback has been updated - Download trailers for a few Steam games, then verify playback controls and general in-app video behavior work as expected Import and metadata workflows saw several targeted updates - If you use Ubisoft, Xbox storefront imports, or mixed-ROM imports with multiple versions and regions, those are all good areas to sanity check in this beta Big Box received several quality-of-life and stability updates - Hybrid view searching, achievement filters, popup behavior, system menus, and video playback are all worth extra testing time if you use Big Box regularly Beta 3 Local metadata package refreshes now use SHA-256 verification with retry handling and a shorter refresh path - Run a metadata refresh from Tools > Download Metadata and Media, from any import workflow that refreshes metadata, or from a metadata search, then confirm it completes successfully and feels faster now that the older extended validation steps have been replaced Full Changelog You can view the complete changelog here (it gets updated first): https://www.launchbox-app.com/about/changelog Beta 1 New Feature: Added RetroAchievements support for WiiWare titles when using Dolphin Improvement: Updated Dolphin integration to better support newer versions Improvement: Improved ROM prioritization when combining multiple versions of the same game during import, using a smarter ranking pipeline to better select the ideal default ROM Improvement: Extract ROMs now preserves the original archive folder name inside the temp directory, improving save path consistency in emulators such as RetroArch Improvement: FinalBurn Neo importer now automatically unchecks Extract ROMs for the emulator associated platform to prevent unnecessary extraction Improvement: LaunchBox system tray support is now free for all users, with options to always show the tray icon, minimize to tray, and close to tray Fixed: Improved Big Box video playback stability when using FFMPEG, resolving rare crashes related to video disposal and media cleanup Fixed: Crashes in Big Box when navigating between views with Windows Media Player video playback enabled Fixed: Issue where auto play music could cause the UI to lock up after Big Box opened Fixed: Bulk Edit Wizard issue that could trigger a crash style error while applying or finishing changes Fixed: Potential null reference issue when saving a new emulator Fixed: Operation Wolf now correctly shows MAME High Score support Beta 2 New Feature: LaunchBox and Big Box now include major RetroAchievements expansions with richer Game Details support, beaten/mastered and playtime commitment visibility, improved achievement profile stats, improved Dolphin integration, and broader default theme support New Feature: RetroAchievements can now be filtered in Big Box and Pause views, making it easier to browse and focus on the achievements you care about New Feature: Big Box Hybrid views now have their own dedicated search behavior, keeping searches scoped to the current platform or playlist instead of kicking you out to a global search New Feature: Save Management has been significantly expanded with better save tracking, automatic backups, backup-on-close options, backup limits, manual backup scans, and save version history tools, including expanded support for Dolphin and PCSX2 save tracking across Nintendo GameCube, Nintendo Wii, Nintendo WiiWare, and Sony Playstation 2, plus better support for the Mednafen Saturn core New Feature: The Welcome Wizard import experience has been overhauled with staged progress, clearer status messaging, improved retry handling, and much better visibility into what LaunchBox is doing during first-time imports New Feature: The Welcome Wizard now supports media download limits and persistent image download queues, giving you more control over setup-time media downloads New Feature: LaunchBox now includes video playback controls for a better in-app video viewing experience New Feature: Manage Emulators now includes an "Open Emulator" context menu option for quickly launching the selected emulator directly from the list Improvement: Ubisoft imports have been refined with better product filtering, name cleanup, and settings handling for a more reliable import experience Improvement: Xbox storefront importing has seen some reliability improvements with lookups, caching, and import handling Improvement: Xbox 360 imports now support default.xex and Games on Demand formats across all import workflows Improvement: PlayStation 3 imports now support ISO files across import workflows Improvement: Fullscreen image viewing has been improved with pixel-perfect integer scaling, image detail labels, and better fullscreen monitor behavior Improvement: Related Games and Game Details performance have been improved by deferring expensive loading until needed Improvement: 3D model viewing, carousel browsing, and media list performance have been improved for smoother browsing in media-heavy views Improvement: Added a new option to disable the dynamic Play button and use a static Play button instead Improvement: The All Games section will now properly update to match the selected LaunchBox language Improvement: Big Box popup and plugin badge handling has been made more reliable Improvement: EmuMovies authentication and media download flows have been improved with more reliable login gating, retry handling, and messaging Fixed: Steam trailer downloads have been restored with updated handling for Steam's newer streamed trailer delivery, along with better trailer selection, improved fallback handling, and broader MP4 compatibility across imports and media downloads Fixed: Big Box no longer keeps reloading new instances of the same System Menu Fixed: Big Box now behaves better when screensaver timing overlaps with popups and other overlays Fixed: LaunchBox no longer crashes if the emulator name is empty and you tab out of the field Fixed: The License page no longer crashes due to overlapping links Fixed: The Options menu has been hardened against scenarios where it could fail to open Beta 3 New Feature: Big Box now includes a new "Show Playlist Actions" option for the game menu, giving you control over whether playlist actions appear in the game options menu New Feature: Local metadata package refreshes now use SHA-256 verification with retry handling and clearer staged progress, replacing the previous longer validation flow with a faster and more reliable process Improvement: Follow-up improvements for LaunchBox's in-app video playback controls (feature from beta 2) improve startup, resume behavior, fullscreen handoff, monitor targeting, and playback stability Improvement: Follow-up improvements for fullscreen image viewing (feature from beta 2) improve monitor targeting, fullscreen restore behavior, and general reliability Improvement: Follow-up improvements for the Welcome Wizard and other metadata refresh workflows (feature from beta 2) improve local metadata package refresh progress reporting, retry handling, and overall reliability Improvement: Follow-up improvements for Dolphin integration (feature introduced before beta 2 and expanded in beta 2) improve disc ID normalization and scan filtering for compatible additional apps and media types Improvement: Follow-up improvements for media previews and related media-heavy views (feature from beta 2) improve missing-media refresh behavior, local image preview support, and cleanup reliability Fixed: Follow-up fixes for Save Management (feature from beta 2) improve save deletion ownership, persisted save metadata cleanup, and batch metadata persistence Fixed: Follow-up fixes for LaunchBox and Big Box video playback behavior (feature from beta 2) resolve additional fullscreen restore, focus, and preview playback edge cases Fixed: Follow-up fixes for RetroAchievements filtering and navigation (feature from beta 2) resolve an issue where moving upward from the pause-screen filter could behave incorrectly Fixed: Follow-up fixes for Big Box details and theme behavior (feature from beta 2) address responsive layout issues in affected views and correct theme name display Beta 4 New Feature: Added Save Management maintenance tools to repair missing save metadata or clear and rebuild save metadata from emulator and vaulted saves Improvement: PCSX2 save matching now supports CHD disc images Improvement: Dolphin Wii save discovery and restore now support both disc saves and channel saves Improvement: 3D models now handle cached and fallback artwork more reliably Fixed: GOG media downloads now work reliably for icons, posters, and screenshots Fixed: Fullscreen image viewing no longer overlaps the taskbar and scales images correctly across image types, DPI, and monitors Fixed: Imports and media downloads now respect media limits more accurately, including no-limit automated imports Fixed: Game details videos no longer steal focus from the game grid Fixed: FFME video cleanup is more stable and less likely to hang or crash Fixed: Welcome wizard selections are saved more reliably when finishing setup Fixed: The bundled Xbox - White controller input pack no longer incorrectly reports that an update is available Fixed: The Manage Storefronts window no longer errors when using the Close button Fixed: Save Management now removes deleted save metadata immediately and more reliably, preventing stale saved-game and save-state badges from remaining after saves are deleted Beta 5: Improved: System Tray options have been clarified with a new Enable System Tray setting, and tray-related close and minimize behavior now only applies when the system tray is enabled Improved: Local metadata refreshes are more reliable across imports and metadata downloads, with better reuse of active refreshes, more accurate progress reporting, improved package validation with database hash verification progress and more reliable retry handling Improved: LaunchBox restart handling is more reliable for theme installs, plugin updates, options changes, and data restores Fixed: Like and unlike support now works correctly for Themes and Media Packs in the Media Manager, making it easier to give feedback on community-created downloads directly from LaunchBox Fixed: Automatic ROM imports now better respect disabled auto-import settings and more reliably avoid creating duplicate games or duplicate additional apps when scanning for new ROMs Fixed: Several System Tray shutdown and cleanup issues have been resolved, improving quit, minimize, restore, and restart behavior when tray options are enabled Fixed: Several Big Box stability issues related to controller navigation and background image updates have been resolved, reducing the chance of crashes or freezes while navigating with a controller or loading images Fixed: FFmpeg/FFME video playback now loops more reliably without freezing or crashing at the end of playback Fixed: Metadata downloads now handle cases where no games can be resolved, preventing unnecessary failures and helping preserve queued media download work Some Known Issues (already on our list to fix immediately) The welcome wizard maybe not bring over some of your settings and your license in some scenarios depending on your choices (beta 2) PCSX2 save management can incorrectly point to the wrong game, or incorrectly categorize backups with some filetypes like CHD (beta 2) Thanks as always to everyone helping test this out, your feedback makes a huge difference.

It's a little more dynamic than that. LaunchBox automatically attempts to tell which version of RetroArch to install based on the device you are installing on. We've noticed this does not always work on every device (the fracturedness of Android and all that), and have been looking for ways to make that process more robust. Until then, you do have the option to manually install the 32bit version of RetroArch, then point to it in the emulator settings in LaunchBox.

Glad you like it! Since the theme wasn't intended to include "media" image code, what you'd have to do is open your preferred view's xaml file and add the disc image code into it. Our most up-to-date Big Box theming guide is found over on our strategy guide: https://feedback.launchbox.gg/help

CinemaBox - A Simple Movie Importer Plugin View File I had a day to spare on the weekend and wanted to try my hand at a LaunchBox plugin. This is the result. I don't plan to actively develop it too much moving forward, as this was very much a weekend hobby experiment project. Still, it works, and I figured I would share it in case it is useful to someone. Requirement: LaunchBox 13.26 or higher What does this do? It's currently a movie importer plus metadata and artwork scraper. It is designed for people who already have a local movie collection organized for apps like Plex, Jellyfin, or Emby. It imports that folder into LaunchBox with minimal fuss. It also downloads and configures MPV so movies can launch cleanly as an "emulator", and be used with a controller. Metadata and artwork provided by TheTVDB. Installation Close LaunchBox Download the 7z archive Unblock the archive in Windows if needed (Right click > Properties > Unblock) Extract it into your LaunchBox Plugins folder Your structure should end up like this: LaunchBox\Plugins\CinemaBox\CinemaBox.dll LaunchBox\Plugins\CinemaBox\CinemaBox.deps.json How to use Tools > CinemaBox Runs the import and downloads and configures MPV. Right click a movie > CinemaBox > Change Match (TVDB) Rematch the movie and re download metadata and artwork. Right click a movie > CinemaBox > Media Download (Replace Artwork) Grab alternate artwork. A few things to be aware of: Matching is based on folder and file names. If your naming is messy, results may be messy. If TheTVDB changes their API, this plugin can break. Heavy scraping could potentially hit API rate limits. MPV configuration is basic and meant to “just work”. If something breaks, feel free to post about it. I'll be checking in every now and then, and may be able to fix it. Uninstall Close LaunchBox Delete the folder: LaunchBox\Plugins\CinemaBox Submitter faeran Submitted 03/02/2026 Category Third-party Apps and Plugins  

Something like this:

Make sure you also have Theme Specific setting also turned off. I think it's possible to turn that setting off globally but not off for RetroTastic's theme specific options. If that still doesn't work, then you may need to clear your cache. You can see my test here worked fine.

The theme is done at this stage, but the code is out there for anyone wanting to pick up the mantle. Pretty sure the theme just uses the normal "main image" transition code, which means that what you are seeing isn't an image, but the actual 3D Model of the game box, which means you could map some buttons to rotate the box and you can rotate it from that view. You should be able to turn off 3D Models there by going into Options > Game Details > Use 3D Models for Box Images

LaunchBox for Android 1.22 Beta thread has opened:

Hi Everyone, A new beta round has begin for Android for version 1.22. The first beta is out and introduces a powerful new Security system, visual theme update indicators, improved library optimization behavior, and an important scoped storage fix. While the changelog is fairly straightforward, we would really appreciate focused testing, especially around the new Security system. Testers: Things to Focus On Please help us validate the following: Security System: Enable Security under Options > Security, lock multiple features, attempt editing, deleting, importing, emulator management, and platform options. Restart the app and reboot your device to confirm restrictions persist. Test while using LaunchBox as your home launcher as well. Theme Update Indicators: Confirm the green badge appears in Manage Themes and next to individual themes when updates are available. Update a theme and confirm the badge disappears and remains accurate after restart. Scoped Storage Fix: While using LaunchBox as your home launcher, attempt to set or change a Scoped Storage path and confirm it saves and functions correctly. Beta 1 Changelog Added a new Security system that lets you lock down platform and game management features behind a PIN, with extensive configuration options available under Options > Security Added a visual update indicator for themes, showing a green badge on the Manage Themes menu item and next to individual themes when updates are availableUpdated Optimize Library behavior so star ratings across your entire library now refresh automatically when running an Update Library scan Fixed an issue that prevented setting a Scoped Storage path when the app was running as a homescreen launcher Beta 2 Changelog Added Steam game importing for the new Windows platform. This lets you bring your Steam library into LaunchBox for Android and launch supported games through compatible Android Windows launchers Added Steam media support. Steam games can now use Steam artwork and trailers, including box fronts, clear logos, backgrounds, and videos, giving imported Steam games better media coverage out of the box Added Steam library update support. LaunchBox can now compare your Windows/Steam platform against your Steam library to add newly owned games and optionally remove games you no longer own Added options to customize Steam imports. You can choose whether to import only games, include family-shared games, search the LaunchBox Games Database, prioritize Steam metadata, prioritize Steam media, or allow duplicate imports Added platforms: Windows, Arduboy, Sega Model 3, Uzebox, WASM-4, and Microsoft Xbox Added emulators: GameHub Lite, GameNative, Pizza Boy SC Pro, Azahar (Vanilla), Linkboy, Lynx.Emu, PICO-8: Android, PICO-8: Picpic, Aethersx2 (Turnip), SkyEmu, MelonDualDS, YabaSanshiro Pro, Vita3k (ikhoeyZX), Super3, X1 Box, aPS3e, and eka2l1 Added RetroArch core mappings for Arduboy, Uzebox, and WASM-4. These platforms should now be easier to import and launch when using RetroArch Improved streaming video support. LaunchBox now handles more streaming video formats, including HLS streams, which helps Steam trailers and other online videos play more reliably Fixed Local and Cloud filters so games appear in the correct place. Games with local files now show under Local, while Cloud only shows games that exist only on a configured network/cloud location Fixed a possible crash when returning to LaunchBox. This could happen if notification or data services were not available yet when the app resumed Fixed possible image resize conflicts during media downloads. This could prevent media from failing or becoming inconsistent when multiple images were being processed at the same time Fixed scoped-storage handling for additional applications. Launching alternate versions or additional apps should now use the correct file path or URI Fixed scoped-storage lookup to use the selected application path. This helps when launching an additional app or alternate version instead of the main game file Fixed the built-in Vita3k Android emulator launch command Thank you for helping us refine LaunchBox for Android. Your testing and feedback continue to make the app better with every beta.

What you can do instead is drop the bat files into LaunchBox, and then choose the option: None of the Above Since you are not importing ROMs that's the option you'll want to use, then you won't have to choose an emulator.

We've talked extensively internally about upgrading our internal tools and infrastructure, but always delay it due to time investment and the very real risk of breaking what we already have set up and working for the last decade. If we spin up another project, we most definitely will take advantage of a more modern approach, although it will be more to help us, and less about public perception. Not really sure it matters, but we needed to fix a problem with our import wizards locking only to find out we already fixed it internally in a branch that also contained the FB Neo import. It would have taken just as much, if not more time to decouple the two and test them separately than it would to just test what was already there and working, so hence, new feature The next beta cycle will start soon enough as we already have branches in the code review / internal testing phases, so expect a new beta thread in the next week or so. I'll close this one down for now until then. Thanks everyone for the help with beta testing this release.

As we mentioned from the beginning of this cycle, this was a quick hotfix release cycle to address some of the major issues that showed up with 13.25. We'll have some communication shortly about the hotfix release in a number of places. For the most part, Beta 2 is what the hotfix turned into, and we've already started the next release cycle internally. Yes, you will end up having issues if you are 7zipping games like that. Instead, I would look into compression alternatives. Ask someone on the forums for emulator specific compression alternatives that don't require decompression to run, there's most usually a solution. Also note that RetroAchievement scanning will not take place for Platforms that RetroAchievements does not support. Sounds like you've had a string of bad luck, which we apologize for. We were unable to duplicate any of the music issues you are having. We've actually specifically addressed a number of them within this hotfix release. For any other issues you may have, it's best to both ask on the forums if there are any simple solutions you may be missing, or report a bug using the above menu under HELP & SUPPORT > REPORT A BUG Each report should have thing you deem a bug, and you'll want to provide as much information as you possibly can. For any crash related items make sure to include a crash report, along with exact reproduction steps, including plugins, themes, views you use, features you were using, those kinds of things. Include at least your Settings files, or your entire Data folder. The more information, the better we can see if there's something in our code base that we need to address, or if it's something else we can help you with.

Make sure to turn it on under Options > Show Playlist Filters

Make sure you are also setting the Scrape As value to Arcade. Those are the two rules in order to see the fbneo import page at the end of the import wizard. We'll have a write up once this goes live, and we will also look to expand this logic to include the emulators as well in future updates.

We haven't been able to recreate this, and RetroArch code hasn't been touched in a very long time, so my guess is that the issue is fairly internal to your location unfortunately, for whatever reason. If you are referring to LaunchBox, the default is Box Fronts, so it would be strange for it to suddenly change randomly. I don't believe there's any code that allows the change globally like that (it's always possible a plugin could introduce that kind of functionality). This would be best to troubleshoot in another thread. The way FinalBurn Neo import currently works is that you'd have to import a platform that has a name similar enough to FinalBurn Neo, then you'll see it. In the future, I could see a benefit to opening this up to take into consideration the emulator's exe, and core for people that use RetroArch, although that won't happen for this hotfix. Let us know if naming the platform properly works for you. Thanks. Looks like it's the "RotationAmount" property. We will look into this before the hotfix drops. What we would need from anyone experiencing any kind of crash for either LaunchBox or Big Box for us to take a look: Any Crash Reports that LaunchBox or Big Box provides Any Crash Reports found in Event Viewer specific to the crash that also are .NET crashes (there may be multiple per crash) The Settings.xml and BigBoxSettings.xml files would also be super helpful, as long as they are in the exact state that makes you crash Then, click on HELP & SUPPORT in the menu above, and choose REPORT A BUG, and send us a full report of exactly what is happening at the time of the crash, along with all the above. We utilize RA Hasher, the official hashing tool from RetroAchievements, which as far as I know, doesn't allow you to read bits flowing through RAM to gain the hash that it needs. If they ever get support for that, we can look into supporting it. RA Hasher doesn't have support to read the contents of a 7zip file to obtain the hash (hence the need to extract), but it does have support for zip. So, from a user's perspective, the better format to store your small ROM files is either uncompressed entirely, or within a zip, if RetroAchievements is important to you.

Thanks, that trail will lead you to the answer. What you got was the same issue when you were on beta 1. The fix was applied to beta 2

Read the first post, it should explain it to you. Also, there's currently no server issue. Not sure why it crawls from where you are. You won't get the full speed, but it's usually enough to download in a few minutes.

Beta 2 is out with the following: Improved: Optimized music playback in LaunchBox to run off the main thread and reuse the same VLC session, improving overall performance and playback stability Improved: Addressed multiple reported issues related to music playback reliability and session management Fixed: Background music no longer restarts or skips the current track when the screensaver activates Fixed: Platform videos in LaunchBox now stop playing correctly when the platform details pane is closed Fixed: Restored video playback on Platform Hybrid views where videos were previously not playing Fixed: The Play Video Audio with Background Music option can now be toggled independently from the Prioritize Soundtrack Music setting, allowing both options to work as expected Fixed: Resolved an index out of range error that could occur during automatic ROM imports in rare empty list scenarios The first post and in app explains more of how you can help test the changes in this beta. Thanks all.

Not to linger on it, but it was essentially just a flip of a setting that then caused some users not to see that an update was available in some scenarios. That was essentially it. Early adopters of 13.25 would have potentially seen this in their build. In all cases there were ways around not getting the notification, which most people here found, with a few others ways as well that weren't mentioned.