BigBox crash while sitting idle doing attract mode

[Retro808]

42 minutes ago, Jason Carr said:

Thanks Retro, unfortunately though we'll need to tackle each issue individually, because so often with these things we find that they are separate, unrelated issues. So unfortunately we can't assume that you and @MrSco are running into the same issue. Can you provide me with a debug log when it crashes (or several)? That should help to figure it out.

Completely understand. I do have logs on for all systems. So I will run them all and send logs.

Here is actually a log from the last close out on the cabinet with the Ryzen CPU (Mini-cabbuild). It does reference a memory issue. I am curious as to why (is 16GB just not enough?). This cabinet runs only Arcade platforms (Arcade, CPS, CPS2, CPS3, SNK Neo Geo, and Cave). All are only using Mame/Mame Roms. Theme is minimal in displayed media (non-full screen gameplay video, box art, clear logo, and favorites icon, text list view). The them was created in the Community Theme Creator.

Specs:

Ryzen 2200g, 16GB Ram, 2x 1 TB Internal 3.5" SSD, no dedicated GPU.

I will look to see if I can find a log from a crash on the i7-7700k build or post one after it does.

 

Debug 2020-07-01 08-45-35 AM.log

[Jason Carr]

6 minutes ago, Retro808 said:

Completely understand. I do have logs on for all systems. So I will run them all and send logs.

Here is actually a log from the last close out on the cabinet with the Ryzen CPU (Mini-cabbuild). It does reference a memory issue. I am curious as to why (is 16GB just not enough?). This cabinet runs only Arcade platforms (Arcade, CPS, CPS2, CPS3, SNK Neo Geo, and Cave). All are only using Mame/Mame Roms. Theme is minimal in displayed media (non-full screen gameplay video, box art, clear logo, and favorites icon, text list view). The them was created in the Community Theme Creator.

Specs:

Ryzen 2200g, 16GB Ram, 2x 1 TB Internal 3.5" SSD, no dedicated GPU.

I will look to see if I can find a log from a crash on the i7-7700k build or post one after it does.

 

Debug 2020-07-01 08-45-35 AM.log 11.1 MB · 1 download

Gotcha. What theme is it specifically? This log does very much suggest that there's some sort of a memory leak, which I suspect is related to the theme.

[Retro808]

2 minutes ago, Jason Carr said:

Gotcha. What theme is it specifically? This log does very much suggest that there's some sort of a memory leak, which I suspect is related to the theme.

It was one I made in the Theme Creator. I am going run default today and test for a crash. I have tested on my big cabinet with the default theme and still got a crash, but that build has different specs so could be something entirely different.

I will report back on this one I have set it to default theme.

[Jason Carr]

4 minutes ago, Retro808 said:

It was one I made in the Theme Creator. I am going run default today and test for a crash. I have tested on my big cabinet with the default theme and still got a crash, but that build has different specs so could be something entirely different.

I will report back on this one I have set it to default theme.

It also may help to update the Theme Creator and re-export the theme. I believe y2guru did fix some possible memory leaks recently.

[Retro808]

1 minute ago, Jason Carr said:

It also may help to update the Theme Creator and re-export the theme. I believe y2guru did fix some possible memory leaks recently.

That I already did as I had found some issues and reported to y2guru which I know he worked with you on his updates.

[DOS76]

I have crashes on my arcade machine too but it almost always takes 4 or 5 days to crash and then I just restart it at that point.

[MrSco]

On 7/6/2020 at 12:39 PM, Jason Carr said:

You can enable debug logs under Tools > Options > Debug in LaunchBox, and then the debug logs will show up under LaunchBox\Logs. That should help us going forward to figure it out.

The mechanical USB hard drive might actually end up being the culprit here, because I really don't do any testing that way currently (maybe I should). The four systems that I test on regularly all use internal SATA SSDs and/or mechanical drives. They're all stable and can run for days on end, so that may be the difference.

There are no errors or warnings in the event log that are related to the usb bus or hard drive so I seriously doubt the usb hdd is the cause. 
 

I’ve attached the Debut logs generated from the launch and crash of bigbox.exe

Debug 2020-07-07 06-41-08 AM.log Debug 2020-07-07 06-43-20 AM.log

[neil9000]

2 minutes ago, MrSco said:

There are no errors or warnings in the event log that are related to the usb bus or hard drive so I seriously doubt the usb hdd is the cause. 
 

I’ve attached the Debut logs generated from the launch and crash of bigbox.exe

Debug 2020-07-07 06-41-08 AM.log 3.39 kB · 0 downloads Debug 2020-07-07 06-43-20 AM.log 411.32 kB · 0 downloads

What theme are you using, as i see references to culture converter in there, so not the default theme im assuming?

[MrSco]

8 minutes ago, neil9000 said:

What theme are you using, as i see references to culture converter in there, so not the default theme im assuming?

I’m using Unified Redux, but I’ve tested two other themes including the default and they all crash the same way. 
there is indeed a reference to a missing png file though...

FIRST CHANCE EXCEPTION: Could not find file 'H:\Arcade\LaunchBox\Themes\Unified Redux\Images\Theme\Pointer\.png'.

[MrSco]

@Jason Carr any incite gained from the debug logs?

[Retro808]

@Jason Carr Here are two logs from one cabinet. Crashes occurred 2 days apart.

LB version 11.1

Log #1 - Unified Redux theme

Log #2 - Default theme

 

 

Debug 2020-07-06 12-05-25 PM.log Debug 2020-07-08 07-57-29 PM.log

[ItchyRobot]

42 minutes ago, Retro808 said:

@Jason Carr Here are two logs from one cabinet. Crashes occurred 2 days apart.

LB version 11.1

Log #1 - Unified Redux theme

Log #2 - Default theme

 

 

Debug 2020-07-06 12-05-25 PM.log 2.14 MB · 2 downloads Debug 2020-07-08 07-57-29 PM.log 546.24 kB · 1 download

It's good to see others running into this issue. At least its not just me now. I have tried about 8 different themes, including ones Jason suggested, and I still get crashes if I let it sit in attract mode.

Does yours crash and leave you with a hidden mouse cursor at the Windows desktop screen?

[Retro808]

15 minutes ago, ItchyRobot said:

It's good to see others running into this issue. At least its not just me now. I have tried about 8 different themes, including ones Jason suggested, and I still get crashes if I let it sit in attract mode.

Does yours crash and leave you with a hidden mouse cursor at the Windows desktop screen?

No. Mouse is visible.

[ItchyRobot]

33 minutes ago, Retro808 said:

No. Mouse is visible.

Do you have BigBox set to hide it?

[Retro808]

Yes

[MrSco]

On 7/6/2020 at 12:39 PM, Jason Carr said:

You can enable debug logs under Tools > Options > Debug in LaunchBox, and then the debug logs will show up under LaunchBox\Logs. That should help us going forward to figure it out.

The mechanical USB hard drive might actually end up being the culprit here, because I really don't do any testing that way currently (maybe I should). The four systems that I test on regularly all use internal SATA SSDs and/or mechanical drives. They're all stable and can run for days on end, so that may be the difference.

I just tested on an internal 7200rpm seagate 3TB sata drive and the same crash happened after 26 hours. 
 

so far we’ve ruled out:

theme

drive

windows

computer specs 

... not sure what else is left but a bug in the bigbox.exe...?

[Merlin]

Here is my log to see if anything pops out.

Crashing every 3 to 15 days in attract mode.

Dell Optiplex 7020, i5-4590, 8gb, onboard graphics

If you have any questions for me just post them in this thread

 

Debug 2020-06-27 09-14-42 PM.log

[MrSco]

16 minutes ago, Merlin said:

Here is my log to see if anything pops out.

Crashing every 3 to 15 days in attract mode.

Dell Optiplex 7020, i5-4590, 8gb, onboard graphics

If you have any questions for me just post them in this thread

 

Debug 2020-06-27 09-14-42 PM.log 6.68 MB · 2 downloads

interesting... both yours and @Retro808 log files contain errors about " Insufficient available memory" ... my logs don't have that going on.

[Jason Carr]

Yeah, crashing after 3 to 15 days with only 8 gigs of RAM is honestly a known issue that I can easily replicate. Unfortunately 8 gigs of RAM is just barely not enough when running Big Box for long periods of time with some themes and views, unless you crank down the quality settings, and even then it might eventually run into the same issue. I don't currently have a solution for that, but at least I can reproduce it. Simply adding more RAM should get rid of that specific issue.

MrSco's issue is completely different. I do know that underpowered systems (such as an Intel Nuc) can run into CPU and/or graphics card limitations and can cause attract mode to fall behind and eventually crash the app. I still don't understand why he would be seeing an issue on his more powerful machine though. Regardless, it can be incredibly difficult to identify sources of crashes like this, because they can come from anywhere, including OS or driver bugs, conflicting apps, or any number of other things. I'm really not trying to cop out of fixing these stability issues, and I'm always working on it, but unfortunately it's far from simple to even identify the problem in some cases. On top of that, it really doesn't help to draw conclusions, because it's almost never as simple as it seems.

Still, I'll keep working on stability. I do regular stability testing for each new version, running Big Box attract mode with various themes on multiple systems for days on end, and I never release without stable results. That said, of course it's impossible for me to test with every hardware and software combination out there, so I can never be certain that there won't be an occasional crash on certain systems. All to say that we're doing the best we can here, guys. We'll keep working on it.

[Retro808]

@Jason Carr My set-ups crash with both 16GB and 32GB set-ups. The 32GB setup usually takes a lot longer, but it does eventually crash. The two crash logs were on 16GB set-up. Definitely not saying the crash is solely LB related, but wanted to add that I am using more than 8GB of Ram. The most common factor is theme. It took longer to crash on default theme with the 16GB memory set-ups than it did with custom themes like Unified Redux or Editorial Noir.

Not to worried about the issue, but wanted to add my testing and results since other users are reporting the issue.